Ask the Edmonds Cop: How police are enforcing social distancing

Edmonds police Sgt. Damian Smith talks about how police are responding to public health guidance regarding gatherings and social distancing.


  1. Where has anyone being led to use the common cold as a reference? Perhaps there’s another possibility.. That some of us aren’t dependent upon a corrupt, disingenuous media machine to spoon feed us any party line “truth”, actually understand science, economics, and constitutional civics, and search for understanding & facts. Here’s a few.. There’s Millions of asymptomatic covid “recoveries”, so for them it’s not even as bad as the cold. As a SARs RNA flu, it bears much scientific similarity to the standard flu in both symptoms and vectors. It’s nowhere near as dangerous as initially discredited grossly inaccurate models told us it would be, and future analysis will probably find to be somewhat more dangerous for older and unhealthy demographics, and certainly much safer for everyone else. But even this is obscured by most states following WHO guidelines for reporting all deaths with covid antibodies as covid death, whether or not covid actually caused their death. Politics and optics over fact again.

    It not just belief that multiple constitutional rights are being trampled on daily, for anyone paying attention, it’s a fact. All Americans should be fearful of this, regardless of political persuasion. It’s not just about a political “win”, constitution’s apolitical, next time it may benefit you when politicians you don’t like play fast and loose with them.

    All pandemics are overcome by herd immunity and antibodies, not ignorantly counting cases, cowering at home, and crushing our livelihoods like our governor forces us to do. Covid’s nearly perfect for herd immunity, nearly no effect on the young, who’re often prime vectors such as cashiers, clerks, waiters, people who interact with many. Once immune, they limit virus access to many including the vulnerable. Our economic catastrophe will end up killing many more than covid. Finally, by comparing (deaths per/x) lockdown countries vs open ones it’s easy to see that lockdowns are utter empirical failures. No correlation. Common sense countries like Sweden Brazil, Belarus et al and US states like S.Dakota. are no more deadly than their locked down neighbors, just with a functioning economy and without a fearful populace. Social distancing? It’s voluntarily prudent for the fearful or vulnerable, but not as a state edict for those who are healthy and refuse to live the “new normal” fear culture.

    Covid’s nearly a perfect example of “crying wolf”, with resultant loss of credibility for our tyrants down the road. Unified? I’m sure if we had a true danger like the historical black death, smallpox, or Spanish flu I be right there with you.

    1. At least one of us is concerned more about science and not getting stuck on the logical irrelevance of whatever -wing’s talking point it is or whether it’s some boogie man’s current position. Evidently you just skimmed your referenced article, if even that. Fake? It acknowledges herd immunity, and only address at what point herd immunity is reached, not in any way shape or form debunking the herd immunity concept. To help you understand this concept at a fairly basic no-partisan level.. .

    2. This mentality is getting people killed. Perhaps when you or someone you love is impacted you will drop the Fox News talking points and help others rather than being selfish. Or not… and you’ll learn the hard way.

      -your disappointed neighborhood RN

      1. Sorry for your disappointment. Fox News?? SMH Try again. Not here. Can think all by myself without any spoon fed talking points. How about you?

        America looses 2.8 million people/year, no one’s immune. Every sickness and death is a tragedy, but so are businesses and livelihoods ruined by shelter in place orders, and the resultant tragedy and death that we’re starting to see already. Like your mentality, Inslee says ‘This Is About Life’, while his policies demonstrate his fundamental inability to protect the vulnerable without ignorantly destroying life for healthy Washingtonians. This will result in more misery and death than covid, with more people and years of life ruined. Not selfish, just (un)common sense, facts and science, but you can pompously continue living your bubble and feel good about yourself, and time will tell who learns the hard way…

    3. I am embarrassed for you and your naïveté. I am a nurse working to help comfort those affected by this pandemic and you are lecturing me about the bubble I live in.. You should be ashamed of your self.

      But I don’t expect you will. Pity…

      1. “Nurse” Derek, it seems that you started the shaming and talking down to a commenter. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if you do not agree. Your hysteria is embarrassing.

      2. I couldn’t possibly care less about any embarrassment, am in no need of anyone’s pity, and think the shame may belong somewhere else. To clue you.. I’ve lived a wide variety of life, perhaps more than you, and just because I dare to think outside your groupthink, you consider me naive. It’s ignorantly pompous, perhaps you should look in the shame mirror.

        I’m just sailing on the SS Inslee and have the nerve to.. A) notice that we’re heading for the icebergs, and B) suggest a adaption of course. This “shameful” and “unthinkable” attitude must be caused by some perceived affiliation with Fox news, a fearful ” –wing”, or some other boogie man affiliation, not just logical merits. Nope. Just living my life with No Panic, refusing to join the constantly offended Chicken Little party. It’s really pathetic. Perhaps we should plan on shutting down the country every winter and just cowering in our holes.

        When I read 1984 years ago, I considered it farcical, something so far from reality it was hard to finish. Now I find myself living around a bunch of “Adrian Monks”, afraid of their shadow in a place resembling 1984 meeting the Twilight Zone.

        As George Carlin said.. “You aren’t saving anyone’s life by staying home, you are allowing a dangerous group of liars to manipulate you”.

  2. To Mr Refiel: Your arguments would have more influence if they included actual data. But you have a penchant for “”.

    To Sgt. Smith: Countries don’t “afford rights” (notice Mr. Refiel the correct grammatical use for “”). Even so, thank you for not citing people who want to make their own choices about living their lives without causing harm to others.

    1. I’d like to apologize to Mr. Refiel and retract the snarky comment about quotation marks. My points could have been made without being negative to another member of our community.

  3. @ Mr. Sherman – I believe you made a good point about the Herd Community. However, as Mr. Refiel pointed out with the reference from John Hopkins analysis which is based on the current data, it would be a catastrophic event.

    I will summarize a few key points from the paper so other readers like, @ Mr. Conaty, do not need to read the entire analysis and still can compare the two approaches and determine which approach is more sensible.

    – In order to reach the Herd Community for infectious diseases such as CoVid-19, 70% population in the US need to be infected with the virus, or about 220 million out of 328 million.
    – With normal daily interactions, it would take about at least a few months to reach the Herd Community
    – With the current death-rate, it would be around 500,000 people will die directly from the CoVid-19 before we can reach the Herd Community.
    However, the analysis does not take into account the domino effect of such a catastrophic event, which I will list them here for further analyses.
    – Under this scenario, the healthcare system would be overloaded and would collapse
    – Most patients with non-related CoVid-19 would die because they cannot access the health care they need
    – Even healthy people who have CoVid-19 would probably die from illness, accidents, etc. because there would be no more hospital to go to.

  4. Whenever the nearly meaningless “confirmation bias” phrase is used as defense, it’s apparent the user is already well versed in its pre-judgment usage. While I think your ideas pre-judge, and seethe partisanship, and polarization, I think they’re also logically and demonstrably wrong. I’ll live in hope that there’s some logic beyond the belief and give it another go..

    Herd immunity or whatever name we wish to apply to this phenomena is what’s been happening for thousands of years, the proof, with or without vaccines, is that we are alive. It’s not rocket science conceptually to understand that as soon as those who are most sociable or those who deal most with the public have antibodies, the virus stops nearly dead in its tracks. Any comparison of the historically truly dangerous smallpox to a SARS flu is either ignorant or disingenuous, a clear false equivalence. Covid will likely be orders of magnitude less fatal to the general population than smallpox or black death. Besides being against herd, what’s your answer? Fear based constant lockdown and living in bubbles? We might as well go back to the caves.

    As with all science, logical minds can and do get theories that don’t match reality. The initial covid doomsayer models given to us two months ago were in error by orders of magnitude, still providing fear and panic to many. Your JH article’s numbers are speculation and guesswork. I’ll use some herd empirical reality with Sweden, as it has the most data to refute your attitude and the JH article and provide a logical path forward. No lockdown. Kindergartens, primary and secondary schools were open throughout. Restaurants, bars, offices, factories, government offices, sports and so on were all open as well. The Swedish public health authority has run several randomized population studies that show they are very far advanced towards herd immunity. They may be there now, as of this writing..

    Whatever you call it, herd is the ONLY LONG-TERM answer.

    If lockdown was viable, Sweden would have much higher cases/M than ours and much of Europe’s. Death percentage only slightly higher than US, less than most of locked down Europe. And.. they won’t have collateral deaths and misery caused by an eviscerated economy.. QED

    1. “Death percentage only slightly higher than US, less than most of locked down Europe”.

      This is patently false. As of May 15, 2020 Sweden’s “death rate” (deaths/M) is the fifth highest on the planet, and fully 33% higher than that here in the U.S. (358.04 vs. our 267.24). Over 12% of confirmed cases result in death in Sweden, a ridiculously high percentage relative to its European neighbours (there are only four European states with a higher percentage of deaths, and Sweden is essentially tied with the Netherlands – here in the U.S. the percentage is less than half that, at 5.95%).
      You are certainly entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own set of facts.

      1. States in Europe death/M higher:. Spain, UK, Italy, France, Belgium. Within 15%: Ireland, Netherlands. The rest lower. Confirmed case death %age.. Spain 10%, Italy 17%, France 15% Belgium 16%.. Obviously the point is… An apples to apples comparison with their neighbors should result in the naive Swedes being an order of magnitude or so more deadly above their neighbors, not anywhere in the same range.. And while Sweden has the most data, they are not the only ones open. Belarus, Nicaragua, and to some degree Brazil, Indonesia, some Central Asian Turkish states. All with numbers well below ours.

        And looking again at the data, I can’t help but notice the correlation between the highest rates in the Politically Correct World.. Western & Northern Europe, Canada, and the USA. Hmm..

  5. Paul we might be nearer to herd immunity than many people think.

    If the randomized antibody tests are correct, they show a true infection rate of 30-85 times higher than the confirmed Covid positive numbers. The current confirmed positives are 1.5 million so it could be the antibody numbers are 45-127 million. As a working estimate lets use a middle figure of say 80 million.

    Of the general population numbers we need to pretty much factor in all 18 and unders as already in the herd. They so far are getting the virus at an extremely low rate and have been found to have a much lower transmission rate, even to adults, than any other age group. That is 72 million in the US.

    This puts us at a working number of 152 of the 220 million in the herd currently.

    Also you can’t straight use current death rate to extrapolate future death rate for at least two reasons. We don’t know the true infection rate and infection population as it expands will include a higher percentage of people from healthy groups that are less likely to die.

    Stay at home orders had little positive effect on the long term care facilities, we could have kept the economy fully open while sheltering these places. In fact much of the death numbers are being driven by the fact that we did a poor job in this population group pre AND post shutdown. Not even just with some states forcing Covid positives into the facilities but also that since most are privately run state governments did little to help them acquire PPE. In NY Cuomo straight out said it was not his job to provide help to private institutions.

    Washington state is one of the hotspots in the country, we have a 5,000 bed capacity stretched over 94 facilities, at our high in April we used 822 beds and zero at the temp facilities that were added. NY is the hottest of hotspots, when they were being flooded with cases they had hospitals in upper NY with virtually zero patients and barely used the temp hospitals.

    1. @Anthony
      I cannot confirm or deny the numbers about the confirmed cases that you mentioned without actual testing data. I hope we will have enough test kits soon then we will know for sure how to handle this disease accordingly.

      “Also you can’t straight use current death rate to extrapolate future death rate for at least two reasons. We don’t know the true infection rate and infection population as it expands will include a higher percentage of people from healthy groups that are less likely to die.” => That is a valid argument because the estimate based on the known confirmed case values and the same principle applies to your estimate too. We do not know many people have been infected with CoVid-19 until we have all been tested.

      My major concern is what if I an asymptomatic COVID-19 Carrier and if I am not careful enough I may be responsible for someone else death/illness whether a family member, relative, friend, or someone I do not know. We live together in a community so our action does impact each other.

      I have been creating a COVID-19 dashboard and collecting data from different sources. One of the data I need is the hospital beds and the up-to-date availability. I do appreciate if you can share reliable sources that have the hospital beds. That would be great to display them on the map.

  6. This one shows data on each state.

    “My major concern is what if I an asymptomatic COVID-19 Carrier and if I am not careful enough I may be responsible for someone else death/illness whether a family member, relative, friend, or someone I do not know. We live together in a community so our action does impact each other.”

    This is where I think we have a fundimental disagreement, I don’t think as a population group we can protect other people from getting sick through the social distancing measures. You and I might do a great job but too many simply won’t. That means its up to the people that are concerned with getting Covid to protect themselves from the rest of us. Since masks have been shown to not do a good job of keeping someone from getting Covid that means all they can really do is stay away from people.

    We are now using masks as basicallly spit shields and it does help to some point, for the people that use them correctly, but how many people actually fall into this group? Right now the best way for those that are likely to have a less than severe reaction to Covid, which is the vast majority of people, to not infect people is to go out and get it and recover. Then they don’t have to worry about passing it on to someone vulnerable.

    1. Anthony, you might also like the Los Alamos COVID site.
      There was a review article (NYT, fivethirtyeight, I lose track) that showed a number of different models. LANL was tracking very well, and when I looked at their website, I really liked the way they frame the results. IHME is considered somewhat optimistic, LANL gives a broad spread and rates how states have done in comparison to the LANL best/median/worst case models in the past.

    2. Paul, not sure how accurate that above site is, found this site…

      …that says our bed capacity is actually 10,259 not 5,000 which is even better news as that means even at peak we used a much lower percentage of beds.

      For a check I looked at New York and healthdata bed numbers were way under what I remember Cuomo saying in his news conferences.

      healthdata says 13,011 while ahd says 57,288 (this number is pretty close to Cuomo).

      The number healthdata reports must be available Covid beds excluding those currently in use for other patients while ahd reports total beds in the state.

      1. Thanks for the resources. I will review those and see if I can incorporate it into my CoVid-19 dashboard.

  7. It’s a shame that you think the our police force is here for that purpose. They are called Law Enforcement for a reason. They must prioritize what limited resources they have to handle the increase of actual crimes that are happening due to the lockdown. It sounds as though you may be of a certain political persuasion yourself and have been led to believe that this is the correct response to this situation.

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