Editor:
I will ask again, what is equity in policing? I was told the answers were in the report. After reading the whole report and doing some additional research, the report is nothing more than biased word salad.
So I ask again what is equity in policing? I can agree that idea of equity has some merit so long as the end result is equal and equitable “equality.” Got my own word salad going now. I have trouble with making policy based on skin color so that notion needs to go away. I can however get behind help/equity for poor people/communities regardless of color. A good example of equity in education would be to offer tutors for students that are falling behind regardless of color.
I encourage people to offer their examples of what equity looks like. Let’s start with the current topic of policing. We as a community need to get our head around this idea because it is obvious that our mayor and at least some of the council have it as a top priority and if we can’t come up with our own ideas/examples/positions and be able to express them then we will be stuck with the mayor’s vision. Which in my opinion many won’t be happy with.
Please share here or in a letter to the editor or directly to the mayor and council. I will start. A seat or seats at the table or in this case on the task force, which I think we already have, although I don’t know if there is a seat for the poor people. https://social-change.co.uk/blog/2019-03-29-equality-and-equity.
Jim Fairchild
Edmonds
Perhaps they are referring to this? https://policingequity.org/
After looking over that site I began to list and write factual corrections then realized that I was correcting fiction. It’s almost like whoever put that site together just sat down, dreamed up statements, and worded them in a way that sounds legitimate, amazing. I’m reminded there are no laws against lying and chicanery in a free country but we should avoid repeating iffy material, even when it’s interesting.
One of my my favorite old College professors posted a video this morning that feels relevant to the topic so perhaps this will help. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFicDB1Kt4w&t=313s
David thank you that was interesting.
I think it is absolutely acceptable to consider skin color in policymaking. Good governance takes into account history, and should attempt to correct the unfair policies that affected people in the past, thus affecting their families in the present. Equity to me would be offering subsidies to black entrepreneurs to allow them to get over the barrier of entry that many whites, by virtue of generational wealth, don’t have.
Note for those looking to make a bad faith argument: Taking into account race in policymaking should only be to right a wrong.
David thank you that was interesting
Nobody wants to hear it but it’s true: It all starts in the home. We can blame anyone and everyone, especially the government. The system. The Man. It’s all too simple though: It all starts in the home. Thank you for sharing that montage. Thomas Sowell is always worth a listen.
Yes, Mr Sowell’s talks and his writings should be taught by all parents. The “Talks” we have had with our children focus on our freedoms, and our responsibilities as an individual, and to guide them into going out into the world with their eyes wide open. “Personal Responsibility” is the heart of our family teachings. We do not teach, that because of our Hispanic blood, that it is any excuse to be a victim. First and foremost is respect to family, God and country, not necessarily in that order. You are judged by the company you keep. Our goal is respect for yourself, your family, and others.
Ours is a story that took years to get to this country. After Cuba, Panama, and Venezuela, we are most fortunate to be citizens. We are raising our children to be grateful and confident, as opposed to fearful and a victim.
Our 12 years here in the US is a dream come true; unless you have lived our struggles, you could not possibly understand our gratitude. Nor would I ever blame anyone for our arduous journey. “That which does not kill us, makes us stronger”, Friedrich Nietzsche
Jim, how about treating people of color the same as white residents for a start. Don’t assume a deadly threat worthy of a hail of bullets from an unarmed black 12 year old, or an unarmed latino man in his own yard, or an unarmed middle aged black woman in her own home after she called 911, or a deaf native man with a swiss army knife folded in his pocket.
Sounds pretty simple to me. I hate to tell you, but parents of children of color fear their children being murdered or assaulted by police a lot more than “getting tutors in school”. I mean, thats a nice side issue that any parent would care about, but it doesn’t really hit the mark as far as life or death issues people of color worry about.
Thank you Ashley that’s 1 treat everyone the same. Did any of those incidents occur in Edmonds? I can’t speak to people’s feelings but statically the police make very few mistakes we are human they are going to happen. Most negative things that happen are because people are uncooperative. Better training which was mentioned in the report would help. But doesn’t help with uncooperative people.
Ashley,
I’m so sad to read about all that. Did it happen in Edmonds? If so, how can we learn more about it? What is being hidden? Are there police reports? This is not ok!
The call to equality in policing has as a basis to “measure bias in policing” as stated in the website above. I agree with that concept. However, the Edmonds Task Force provides no data or facts to “measure bias.” It instead “believes” there is bias and makes its recommendations accordingly. We need to identify the problem (bias) prior to making recommendations. Look at the data contained in police reporting. Antidotes that are not investigated and confirmed should not be included as that would not follow the law of “innocent until proven guilty.”
Yes, all organizations can be improved, but we should do that based on substantiated incidents of poor decisions or behavior, in this case re the Police Department.
So, where to start, how to make this effort more inclusive and real world:
1. Collect data. Identify decisions/behavior that need improvement, based on facts.
2. Involve the community through surveys, meetings.
3. Include input from local organizations, e.g. ACE
4. Get the Police Department involved as part of the solution, not just 4-5 officers. It is important to have input and buy-in from those that are most impacted.
Sure there are many more ideas out there, so let’s hear them…
Hellen thank you good ideas.
Very well put Helen. I couldn’t agree more. We need facts, not suppositions.
https://www.vox.com/2016/8/8/12401792/police-black-parents-the-talk
Every black person I’ve known has told me about “the talk” their parents had with them about the police. Unfortunately, it instilled a deep terror in them about a whole group of people in authority. When someone is told from childhood to fear and distrust a particular group, it does a number on them psychologically. I believe their parents thought they were “helping” their children by “preparing” them, but I think it did more harm than good. I can speak to this because I raised a child who is half black and half white. I didn’t ever want to project my fears onto my child which is the reason I allowed her to climb trees even when I was terrified she would fall.
The way I raised my daughter was to be smart about ALL authority in her life and that she will encounter people of all colors, sizes and mental capacities. I taught her to stand up to bullying even when it was a teacher or an administrator and now to her bosses and professors in law school. She is an empowered woman of color because I did not project my fears onto her, but instead taught her how to walk in her own power and learn from her own life experiences. For her, trust is earned and based on her own perceptions.
If anyone wants to learn more about police, go on youtube and type “First Amendment Auditors.” This will show that there are some awesome police officers and some not so awesome, just like in all walks of life.
Fear perpetuates fear and causes people to resist, rebel and fight, rather than submit to authority. I taught my daughter to use her phone to record any interactions with public servants, not from a place of fear but for accountability purposes.
I have read your comment re: “the talk”3 times Dorian, and each time I feel more positive and affirmed as to its meaning; your communication skills reach me. You are truly sincere and understand “both” sides of a very big picture. May I say I am proud of your skills as a mother, Bravo .
I just gotta say thank you to Dorian and Ashley
for speaking up on this site. Please keep engaged. Appreciate you!
I’m so tired of willfully ignorant people asking to be spoon fed information and about the issues of “bias in policing” and systemic racism in general.
Google “racial bias in policing”. or “Anti racism”. Read a book ! I recomend : “So you want to talk about race” by Ijeoma Oluo.
Or is it really something else ??
We Just heard another account of a black person being called a “n….. ” in the QFC parking lot. This was publically shared this morning in United Methodist service.
This summer while I was vigiling at “protest corner” advocating BLM, a woman pulled over and yelled at us , “don’t support those n…….”..
Racism is not unique to Edmonds. It is and has been everywhere. Throughout time.
But racism is here , in Edmonds, right now.
But this is home.
I encourage everyone to work on our journey to becoming an anti racist. And an anti racist community. There are many educational classes occuring now in Edmonds. The Methodists just announced A community meeting on “Being an Ally”.
I commend the City for taking the steps to address implied bias in all of the departments of the city. Including the police.
So lets not get so offended when the issue of race comes up. Lets not be so threatened by the idea of talking about it . And acknowleding it.
Let’s listen. And learn.
Open our hearts and minds.
And just listen.
Thank you.
Bill Phipps
I am encouraged by the stories of people who have succeeded. Let us learn from their experiences and take their comments to heart. They know of what they speak.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Htm8TuB-5Hc
James Hernandez,
Thank you for sharing your beautiful story of coming to the US! We are glad you’re here!
Dorian, its a bit odd that you place the onus of responsibility on people of color for explaining the very real, very often, and statistically consistent fact of police profiling and harming them on parents of color. Rather than, you know, the police who profile, assault and even kill those same children of color.
If we lived in a world where police did not single out black brown and red kids with excessive force, sometimes even deadly, your argument would hold a more weight. Sadly, we don’t live in that world. Ask the ghost of Tamir Rice whether it was “the talk” that got him killed rather than an officer who assumed black skin makes for good target practice. Ask the family of Philando Castile or George Floyd whether having the talk is harmful rather than explaining a very real threat that black bodies face from white officers.
I can see that some people here believe there is racial bias in police activity within Edmonds and more broadly in the United States but that is actually false. My esteemed fellow faculty at Harvard spent millions in grant funds trying to find evidence of police bias and found nothing despite allocating massive grant funds and student resources in a multi-state effort. They found nothing despite their genuine desire, “and promises to donors,” to find bias.
Here’s a published summary that uses multiple data collection agencies:
https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/police-brutality-race-numbers/
Here is the Harvard study that they worked so hard to prove untrue;
https://www.nber.org/papers/w22399.pdf
“Seriously, they worked REALLY hard to find bias.”
I respect and appreciate all opinions as in this country you are free to have any that you wish and believe anything you want. I also apologize for my unprompted correction, however, my daughters classmates read these forums and I cannot abide false destructive narrative without honest and truthful correction.
Considering that “Law Enforcement Today” is considered a “far-right” propaganda outfit:
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/law-enforcement-today/
And that the study you linked has been criticized: “Nobel-laureate James Heckman and Steven Durlauf, both University of Chicago economists, published a response to the Fryer study, writing that the paper “does not establish credible evidence on the presence or absence of discrimination against African Americans in police shootings”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_G._Fryer_Jr.
I would submit that you are more interested in advancing a right-wing political agenda over “honest and truthful correction”
Ashley, I was disgusted by all of the incidents (and more) that you mention above. Statistically, persons of color are in more danger nationally.
In particular, the Philando Castile incident was beyond reproach. A clear lack of training and/or ignorance on the part of the officer caused an innocent man to be the victim of a crime. Jeronimo Yanez was a Hispanic Officer, 4 years on the job, and killed a black man. The Prosecutor was Asian. The jury acquitted. I do not know the details, but clearly, the intent of Mr. Castile was not to harm the officer. In my opinion, the system that acquitted the officer was to blame.
Tamir Rice, another completely disgusting incident and failure of the system. Although the FBI deemed it was “reasonable” for the Officer to fear for his life, and the Air Soft gun did not have the orange tip normally placed on those guns, the failures were obvious. The 911 dispatched did not accurately relay the information to the Officer that it “was probably fake” and a 12 year old Black child was killed. The Department also failed to vet the Officer (deemed emotionally unstable at a prior police job) – total failure of the system.
The George Floyd case was equally disgusting.
The onus is on all parents to teach their children. I got the talk when I was a kid. The talk I got was:
1. Put my hands on the steering wheel.
2. Is there a problem officer.
3. Here are the items you requested.
4. What do I need to do next?
5. Am I free to go, Officer.
The question I still have is “Do these incidents happen in Edmonds” – understandably there is fear (I have fear, and cannot fathom the fear POC’s must feel), but locally, is their a race based issue with policing.
Posting on behalf of Dorian as she’s having trouble:
Ashley,
I don’t believe that every police officer is a racist who “profiles, assaults and kills children of color.” Teaching children to fear a whole group of people, simply because they are wearing a uniform, is to create an unsafe perception of the world. All the people of color I’ve known have regretted that their parents instilled this fear and mistrust of the police. They have said that they wish they had been empowered to discern good from evil rather than being terrified of all police officers. This caused them to behave in ways that created unsafe situations for themselves when interacting with the police.
I have been greatly harmed by black men, but I did not teach my daughter that all black men should be feared and mistrusted. I’ve taught her how to protect herself and how to be cautious in her interactions with people of all races. Her decisions are not coming from my fears.
According to this one in every 6 U.S. women has been raped in their lifetime.
As a survivor of sexual assault and physical violence, I understand how there is real danger in this world and that my daughter needs to keep herself safe. I don’t teach her that by projecting fear onto her, or stereotyping certain groups of people. This would cause her to feel powerless and she would react to situations from fear rather than being confident and empowered. She is not a victim simply because of the color of her skin or the fact that the is a woman!
Ultimately, I can’t control what happens to her in this world, all I can do is teach her that some people aren’t safe and some people are. I can provide her with tools and even weapons if necessary, but not fear and victimhood!
Dorian, I could not have expressed a reply to Ashley any better. Your comment is truthful and emotional to many women due to the honesty and candor you bring in this subject. Thank you, you are a brave and courageous woman.
I have to apologize this reply is so late. Dorien, or whomever was responding on behalf of her, I would implore you to ask actual native, black and latino parents what about “the talk”. Especially African American parents, whom this country has a century long history of police abuse (i.e Civil Rights). I would also ask have or do you ever interact with people from demographics that data shows face disparate treatment from law enforcement? I’m sure you know “people of color” that will tell you it’s not a problem. Do you know any Latino people from or in Latino communities? Black people from or in Black communities? Have you ever met or listen to local residents like Ijeoma Oluo and their experiences?
Making the argument that it’s not right that Brown, Black and Red parents should tell their kids to assume risk of harm when around police yet defending police who assume harm from those same Brown, Black and Red youth comes off as somewhat hypocritical. Ask a Black parent in Central District or South Seattle or North Portland. Ask a Native parent living off the rez in Spokane or Montana. Ask a Chicano parent living in Yakima. Ask their parents. We don’t live in a society where police and policing are equitable. Many former law enforcement themselves admit this. Former Police Chief of Seattle Norm Stamper comes to mind. To make the argument you are making assumes a general assumption that risk to people of color is either equal to everyone else and thus the fear of harm is unreasonable. And inherently risky, forcing parents to take the risk that “that one officer on that one day” (all it takes) won’t engage in profiling, or excessive force, or even deadly force.
Ashley,
Nationally, the statistics prove this out. I agree that statistically that persons of color are more likely to be convicted of a crime, be involved in a police shooting, or be pulled over by the police. I am focused on acting locally while thinking nationally. There are three tenants to any family, business, government, or agency that I firmly believe in. Transparency, honesty, and accountability. Our local leadership has failed. The one ageny that has not failed is the police department. They are the most scrutinized group in our City, next to the Public Works department. Why, one has the power to kill, the other has the power to spend the majority of the money. In both cases, the leadership has been transparent, is recognized as progressive, and has done their job. In Edmonds, the statistics prove out that white people and persons of color are both more likely to be arrested by the police in comparison to the population. What does that say – if we say POC’s are targeted more in Edmonds because of the data, then are white people targeted more because of police ineptitude or training?
I will not discount the fear of any policing organization – fyi, that fear is color blind. I too have a fear of the police. Not because I did anything wrong, not because they did anything wrong, but because they have the power and authority to make very drastic decisions.
What statistics locally prove out what you are saying – none. The same statistics that the task force and the Mayor ignored – that point to a move in the right direction for policing versus stagnant police policies in other parts of the Country.
Generalizations in local government do nothing. No action, no reality, nothing Just rhetoric.
Ashley,
To answer your questions, yes I do know many black, Latinx and local people from all demographics. In terms of law enforcement treatment, I’ve witnessed good and bad treatment of all humans.
I’ve experienced racism for being white. I’ve also experienced sexism for being female. Does that mean I tell my daughter to fear people who may objectify her or treat her differently because of someone else’s biases? I believe instilling fear cripples people and causes them to blame themselves for the way they are treated.
I’m not sure why you are feeling that my words are hypocritical? Having a “talk” with children that is informative and factual, rather than telling them to make “assumptions,” to me, is wisdom not hypocrisy. It appears that you could be projecting your propensity to “make assumptions” on to me? Are you assuming I haven’t asked all the groups of people you tell me to “ask?” Many of the parents I’ve spoken with have their own fears and experiences, however, they don’t project or instill those fears into their children. They teach them discernment and provide them with healthy tools if and when they encounter authority who abuse their power.
I’ve experienced abuse of power from the police and I’m a law abiding citizen. Am I to assume it is because I’m white or a woman? Maybe it is because they don’t like me confronting their abuse? I’ve experienced safe police officers who were accountable for their wrong actions and those who aren’t. To stereotype, is to instill fear.