After kind emails to Feedme Hospitality are unanswered, it’s worth putting this into the public arena for debate. Salt and Iron, and MarKet (and others to a lesser degree), have eateries on both sides of the sidewalk. They have what looks like 200% capacity.
Putting the obvious CV-21 selective enforcement aside for a moment, people need to be able to use the sidewalk. Main Street is now completely impassable on the MarKet side every day. Salt and Iron has a lightpost that exacerbates traffic as well, and a friend of mine has experienced accessibility issues there. Oft in front of Salt and Iron, the foot traffic needs to take turns going east-west.
How do we reconcile crowds like these with closure of other public spaces? I saw a blind person with a service animal go around the Feedme Hospitality streatery on the street side to get past. Is this just politics?
— Matt Richardson
Edmonds
A fair point Matt. At the very least we need a compromise. Say at least 65% of the sidewalk free, or some determined amount feet needs to be available for pedestrian usage.
Looking at your picture; the signs, seating, and trash bins leave very little room for actually walking.
Extremely good post! I wonder how many of us who live here avoid downtown these days, for exactly the reasons you mention?
Me! Between all the parking being used for restaurants and our once free parking lot now charging. It makes my head hurt just thinking about going into downtown Edmonds.
Granted there are some Friday lunch hours where parking is sparse on 5th, Main and Dayton but I just go find parking outside the 3 hour parking area. I don’t mind the walk to my destination.
Hi Melissa, using parking outside the 3 hr zone is exactly what some folks form Kingston do including weekends. These zones one is safe from fines unless a neighbor reports it to the police. Then the cars are marked and they have 72 hours before they are ticketed.
The other issue with using parking outside the 3 hour zone is this is a way some downtown workers avoid parking in employee parking zones. They need a permit to park but that permit is $50 per year or $25 after July 1. At last count we had over 750 employee permits. In addition to these permits DT residents can buy a permit for $25/yr and $10/yr to give to their visitors. One wonders if the prices for these permits are correct. Also during the parking survey many employees commented that they park outside the 3 hr zones or they parking inside the zone and simply move their cars every 3 hours.
Parking DT is a growing issues and we need to think carefully and correctly on how we create more parking and how we allocate the existing parking.
Last point, I promise, when we have the Main street closure we have around 100 stalls removed from the inventory by closing the streets and some of these stalls are closed as a result of the street eating facilities. There are no easy answers but we really do need to think about all that we know, all that we can predict for the future, and make some informed decisions about our parking inventory. If we are willing to budget $15m to redo Civic Park, we should be willing to consider spending about $30k per stall on public lands, to add to our inventory. Such parking facilities could be used to “move” employees and residents to the new facility and open up more parking for us and our visitors.
I was downtown today and it really wasn’t so bad. On the other hand I believe that there are already rules in place as far as sidewalk accessibility is concerned. Have you tried looking into it?
I do.
Its a covid pit down there. The ventilation in those shacks is far from adequate and over half the time they cannot mask while eating and drinking… So I wouldn’t step foot in one of those. I wish they would remove those streateries they are so tacky. This is all ridiculous. Eventually people who haven’t already will stop coming to Edmonds. I have no doubt. We need those retailers and we need that sales tax. Right. So we try everything to have it both ways. Well we tried and what happened. Business retail still not doing well at all. People who live here complaining don’t like it…Near miss hits of those streateries. Wait till its rainy and slippery and if it snows look out.. I want them gone, yesterday.
And not only that the merchants in the area now have to feel pretty slighted by the restaurants. How many angry groups do you want here all at once. The amount is growing every day…
I agree Matt – a little tight getting around the ones you mention – how about the loft too? Not only do they have tables in the stree but seems like they added a row on the sidewalk! The bottleneck with Mar ket is the ordering and the line that forms- at least with walkable Main Street you could walk in the street
Definitely some hyperbole here: “Main Street is now completely impassable on the MarKet side every day.” Are the people in this photo still standing there, waiting to pass? Does the crowd stretch down to the ferry dock? Should we send provisions? Are we dealing with a humanitarian crisis? Seriously, the argument against outdoor dining in our ongoing pandemic is beyond old. All it would take is an “Excuse me” or other polite gesture and the vast majority of people will happily step aside to allow passage, particularly for the elderly, disabled or someone using a walker/wheelchair. This is how we function as a civilized society. This is how it works in other crowded areas like public transportation, shopping malls, hiking trails, the Westgate QFC grocery aisles, and so on. Odd as it may seem, sometimes you do step aside and “take turns.”
Downtown Edmonds is no longer the sleepy little town of yesteryear. We are spoiled with some pretty great restaurants that attract crowds and fuel the economy, particularly on sunny, summer days, whether streateries exist or not. I don’t think Mike Nelson is summoning his supporters to stand on Main Street and block the sidewalks so no, this isn’t about politics either. Rather, given the photo, this may indeed be about the lobster rolls. Are they really worth the wait? Or are the fish and chips the way to go?
Streateries aren’t why people are coming here to eat. Two summers ago, pre-COVID-21, the restaurants were booming here. That year more new ones opened than any year. The MarKet is a fantastic spot, but only has outdoor seating, and it was set up that way with the outdoor seating it had prior to CV-21. I’d don’t think it’s difficult to hold all these things to be true:
1) People would eat inside
2) Eating outside is also awesome and Edmonds didn’t invent that. Cities have been doing it forever, but they planned for it and made sidewalks/plazas for it. Look at the fantastic outdoor space in front of the Cheese Monger. Look at Red Twig. If MarKet wanted more seating, why did it choose that place?
3) The ADA has no take-turns clause.
Matt, I agree with you that the streateries are not why people come to Edmonds. I said as much in my post that these popular restaurants will attract a crowd, especially during our beautiful summer days, regardless of the streateries. As you said – and again, I agree – the restaurant scene downtown has been booming over the past several years. My issue with your point of view, which you kindly opened up for debate, is that the sidewalk is “completely impassable . . . every day.” These are your words and they are an exaggeration of reality.
I can’t speak as to why MarKet chose their location but they did indeed have indoor seating pre-COVID. I know this because I ate inside on several occasions. Stools lined the window and east side of the establishment. There was also a small communal table across from the seafood display case. (You can go on Yelp and look at the photos from 2018-19 to see for yourself.) It was definitely a tight seating arrangement and, I suspect, one they likely had to abandon once COVID hit.
FYI, The Cheesemonger’s Table closed over five months ago. It’s now Vinbero.
I think we mostly agree. Other than,, the city is already in a deficit that’s 10’s of millions of dollars for sidewalks to be ADA compliant. A blind woman had to walk on the street. The whole Equity scenario sold, where people are standing in boxes looking over a fence at a baseball game is just bunk? :/
The crab in the bag is best, but if Market wanted seating, they could have invested in that. We’re bailing them out. People park in my (and other business owner’s) spots to eat there. The street closures and parking situation is absolutely political.
Thank you Michelle…some logic in these days of panic.
We all need to chill and be polite and neighborly. We want to restaurants and businesses to survive here in Edmonds so lets work to make that happen. People are finally out and about. Support what is working. The streeteries are working. The stores are busy and business is prospering in 2021. Stick with what works and be happy for the businesses that have suffered through this pandemic.
Oh…I think the Lobster Rolls are worth the wait.
Thank you for the comment Michelle. I enjoy eating at the outside seating, and I think there is just some opportunity for pedestrian traffic improvement. This really is a win-win, and certainly an opportunity for some much needed compromise after such a confrontational year.
I definitely agree that more traffic downtown with restaurants is good for businesses overall, and we should be looking for ways to support small businesses right now.
Here are some ways to address some of the issues that Matt brought up that we could all benefit from:
– Apply tape or other markings on the sidewalk outside MarKet to keep the outside lines organized enough for people with a stroller or wheelchair to get by.
– Regular monthly walks by Edmonds City planning to see if there are areas downtown where signage, trash, or table placement provides a reduced area for walking.
– Creation of a general sidewalk guidelines flyer by Edmonds City Planning and Edmonds Chamber of Commerce to hand out to businesses.
I am a new resident of Edmonds and one of the things that drew me was the active downtown. I have seen employees of the MarKet direct the line to move off the sidewalk when it has become too long (past the Starbuck’s entrance) so more of this might help.
The picture in my brief experience does not reflect the normal crowd but when it is busy, navigating that section would be difficult for anyone with a disability.
I don’t really understand the almost hysterical enthusiasm abut MarKet. Yes, the food is tasty, the employees are friendly. I recently decided to go back for another try, since I’d stayed away after being served some less than fresh seafood there on a hot day about a year ago. But, that can happen on occasion in almost any casual dining place so I figured it would be fine to eat there, it’s so popular, etc. So when my friend and I finally got to the front of the long line, they told me I could order and pay for the food but if no seating was available when food arrived, well, we just had to figure something out. Exact words. How is this acceptable to people? I said no thanks and went over to another place that actually seated us before taking the order. I guess some people are so eager to eat somewhere other than their own homes that just about any treatment is acceptable. Don’t know about other people, but being told by a restaurant to get creative with the seating options just seems a cavalier way to treat customers. I don’t have anything against the people who own the place, they may be incredible for all I know, but this just seems wrong.
The MarKet has always been a first come first served location and has never taken reservations. Why you feel entitled to a seat when others had patience or just good timing is on you.
The streateries were meant to be temporary and they have more than served their purpose. Now that indoor dining is again possible it’s past time for them to go. Retailers have also been hurting not only from covid but added to that much less parking than usual, and street closures that mainly benefited restaurants. They deserve our support too, especially this upcoming holiday season. Enough with the streateries.
Apparently in Edmonds being woke doesn’t include being ADA compliant, but it does include $29 lobster rolls.
I do not like the streateries much either – they are unsightly, look hastily constructed, and take away too much parking. That is just my opinion. Though I did visit the one for Salish Sea Brewing over the summer. The problem that MarKet in particular has is how small of a space the have inside and I can see how the lines outside can cause problems, particularly for those with disabilities. Overall I think there may be room for compromise – particularly when it comes to number of streateries, their hours of operation, what is done with them when not in use, and how lines/crowds around some of the restaurants are handled so that customers can get what they came for without significant disruption to the sidewalk traffic flow.
Here is my two cents. What would the city do there was an obstruction on the sidewalk and someone using a wheelchair could not get down that sidewalk? If you go down to Main Street you will find that one of the restaurants only have steps for their outdoor seating. Therefore, if someone in a wheelchair requests to eat outside they cannot access the outdoor seating. Sometimes I feel like we are in Wonderland.
A couple of comments. First, MarKet, could up put a rope line to keep those waiting to order next to the building. This may keep the line from blocking the sidewalk, which as a regular walker is a pain. But since I am blessed and do not have mobility issues, personally is not a big issue. But for others that may have limited mobility it is a problem, and the owners should work to mitigate it.
As for the steeteries, I think it is time for them to go at the end of the year when their time is up. My concern about the MarKet deck is a public safety issue. With just the one access point and now being more closed in I worry about a fire from the gas heaters or whatever by the entrance which could block egress. With most of the deck being canopied access to jump over to the sidewalk or parking lot behind is limited. Plus, that requires a fair degree of physical agility. Or God forbid, some sort of active shooter, it becomes a corral. Before it was covered you could, if able, climb over to escape, not sure if the more limited access was approved by the building department or not.
I’m not a nutcase, (at least on this issue!) my background is insurance and risk management, and that layout just makes me nervous.
According to the public rights of way accessibility guidelines (PROWAG), a 4-foot pedestrian access route (PAR) must exist through the sidewalk corridor. Essentially this means a horizontally flat, sturdy, and obstruction free connected pathway along the sidewalk (this doesn’t need to be in a straight line but does/should be readily identifiable). Walking downtown Edmonds it’s easy to find examples of tables, signs, chairs, and even tree roots/disjointed sidewalk that intrude on this pathway.
Like I said we are very close to preventable law suits…some will take advantage of these obvious obstructions.. They have a case. Those PI cases can run into a million for a soft tissues injury. Meaning X-rays don’t show soft tissue injuries. Its all about the jury. The injury can be life long and the award is based often on that very thing. Will the injury effect their appearance or will they have a limp, will it effect their ability to work and so they go on SSI. Along with the handsome reward from the jury. Its time to think real hard Chamber and City Attorney. You know how it works. I have seen how it works many times and been amazed at the amounts rewarded. I wish I could tell you about a few but It would not be professional to do so.
It’s not just the sidewalks are blocked we have NO PARKING. I think it is time for the retailers to say we want to build out door shops. You have now expanded your stores square footage and the space is free. I have been parking in the 15 min pick up zone for the restaurants so I can do some shopping in Edmonds. I bet the city bent over backward to permit the wood and plastic shanties. I would love to know what kind of insurance the restaurants have for a none permanent structure. If you come out of the Edmonds theater at night the side walk is packed with people just standing around with drinks in their hands. Its time for the shanties to come down and give the tax payers of Edmonds their parking back. Love it you can build a PLASTIC and wood shanties in Edmonds but you can’t get a plastic straw. Makes sense.
I hate to say this, the streateries need to stay until spring. Australia is in winter and is locked down. This winter we will take that baton and our beurocrats will go nuts next.
This is how people survive. The issue is limited to this [as expressed on behalf of many business owners], there are limited parking spaces and Market is taking advantage of the situation to actually INCREASE their seating capacity. I own a couple spaces there and never minded people that park and eat. But the cavalier attitude to the accessibility issue is out of hand. Stick up for people.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought accessible sidewalks for all residents, including those with disabilities, was something we all pay for in our taxes? Also, I guess the ballot box is the only way to get the city leaders to see that many Edmonds residents feel disenfranchised regarding this issue. Of course, weekend visitors from all over Puget Sound are really digging this outdoor dining and drinking scene here, but do their needs count more than those of residents, the tax payers? I do understand that their dollars count a great deal, but those dollars seem to be flowing mostly to restaurants.
I worry sometimes that downtown Edmonds is becoming Seattle’s food court.
The city council passed a streataries ordinance that covers most of your questions. I am sure the city is enforcing the ordinance?. I have found the people who run The Market to be extremely helpful in keeping the sidewalk open.
Regarding Michelle’s comments about saying “excuse me” at certain places, like the mall: you are liable to be ignored. Almost busted a gut when I read that post!!…And for people on the sidewalks in Edmonds: you shouldn’t have to say “excuse me.” People should have the common sense to move aside, or already be out of the way. But the DT Edmonds attitude is haughty in my opinion; bordering on exclusivity. You are correct, Edmonds not the cute little outpost anymore. And that’s too bad. John T.
Please correct if I’m mistaken, but our tax dollars are paying for those paved streets and the sidewalks for people walk on. Are these restaurants that have erected the shanties for additional seating paying additional taxes? I certainly don’t want to be responsible for that any longer, considering so much is now occupied with clubhouse seating.
I used to enjoy shopping the retail in downtown Edmonds on a fairly frequent basis. I can’t even begin to count the number of gifts I’ve purchased over the years. I don’t go anymore because there’s nowhere for me to park. There are many here that agree. What used to be a lovely experience is now just awkward and crowded. And for someone like me with a physical issue(but not a handicapped placard) I am not able to park blocks away and walk the distance both ways.
It is time to restore the beauty of our downtown Edmonds. It is time to make downtown accessible for everyone, and not just the dining out set. It is time for the ugly two by fours and fiberglass wiggle board “streeteries” to go!