I do not want to be writing this letter, but having exhausted every official channel I can think of, from letters to Edmonds Parks and Recreation to councilmembers and others, I must hesitantly “go public.” I have lived near the park for going on 16 years and visit almost daily. In the last few years, the park has experienced significant degradation.
The Pool: Since Cascade Swim Club took over management of the pool, some of the coaches/attendants have found it necessary to play music loud enough to be heard hundreds of yards away (as measured using Google Earth tools). I have repeatedly complained to parks and city council about it as well as to the club itself and individuals at the pool. I have been repeatedly gaslighted on this both by parks and staff at the pool, being told that I couldn’t possibly be hearing music way over there. I’m not against music being played, if it’s quiet. But again on a recent morning, I could plainly hear John Mellencamp, even though I was at least 100 yards from the speakers at the pool. But no, this couldn’t possibly have been the case according to parks and the pool. Oh, yeah, life goes on, long after the thrill of living is gone. I actually like the song, but I shouldn’t have to hear it when I’m walking through the wooded trails of Yost Park.There appears to be nothing impermissible about the music. I know parks has urged the pool staff to turn it down. The neighborly thing to do would be to do so, by everyone working there. It’s ironic that just next to the pool on the fence is a sign from the National Wildlife Federation declaring the area official wildlife habitat.
Wilderness Camps: So-called wilderness camps have been operating in the park for several years. With the recent change in ownership, their impact on the park itself and on other users has greatly increased. Participants are trampling stream banks, running through the stream bed, treading heavily around tree trunks, constructing new and widening existing trails, and building unsightly shelters that are left for days at a time. These activities contribute to erosion and silt in the bed of Shell Creek, a salmon stream lower down which flows into Puget Sound. Heavy trampling around trees compresses soil that can then weaken root systems and kill trees. That is why national parks often put fences around trees. Worst of all is the noise. Sometimes the screaming and shouting are so loud, it is intolerable to go anywhere near what used to be one of the quiet sections of the park. I can even occasionally hear the noise 200 yards away outside the park at my home! Now, the wooded sections of Yost in the summer are essentially a playground. It’s great that children may be learning something about the natural environment instead of being on phones and devices. But at what cost to the park’s physical and acoustic ecosystems and the enjoyment of other visitors? Councilmembers have told me basically the noise is completely permissible. As for the physical harm being done to the park, there seems to be little if any oversight of the activities of the camp(s) by parks officials.
Maintenance: One of the major bridges in the park has been closed for years. There is a discarded post that has sat alongside a trail for years. There is a plywood signpost with nothing on it but graffiti along one trail. It has been there for years. There was a grove of pampas grass plants on a steep embankment near the pool. A backhoe came and tore them all out, leaving an unsightly bare slope prone to erosion. This was months ago. Rains have come and gone, adding to the silt load that will eventually reach the creek. Plus, it is very ugly. Steep trails in the park have no runoff diversions, so when it rains, water flows straight down them, toward the valley bottom and Shell Creek. This is exacerbated by heavy use and mountain bikes, which skid down the steep trails. There are other issues of safety, use, and maintenance I don’t have space to go into.
To me, this is a kind of battle for the soul of the park. Those like me (and yes, there are others) believe that at least some of the peace and quiet of a wooded park like Yost should be preserved for those who seek a little solace and tranquility. The salubrious effects of immersion in nature are well-documented, as are the deleterious effects of noise. With an apparent deference toward those organizations that bring in revenue, Edmonds Park officials and the City seem to believe that the park should be used as much as possible by as many people as possible in as many ways as possible, even if such use really amounts to environmental abuse. Salmon can’t thrive in silt-choked waterways. Birds need to hear each other. Some of us humans like to hear them, too.
— By Vince Barnes
Author Vince Barnes lives in Edmonds
Editor’s note: We offered the City of Edmonds an opportunity to respond and they supplied the following statement.
Our parks are meant to be enjoyed by residents and visitors of all ages and allow for both active and passive recreation and enjoyment. As such, noise can and does emanate from the users of our public parks. Allowing wilderness camps for youth to operate in Yost Park nurtures good stewardship of our natural spaces through education and exploration. Camp leaders diligently reinforce that camp participants are to be respectful of the trails, plants, and trees while exploring. In a heavily wooded space, at times limbs and trees may fall requiring bridge or trail closures. The indefinite closure of bridge #6 is a larger issue that involves numerous environmental agencies’ rules, regulations, and permits. Efforts are being made to address how we move forward while following best practices. Cascade Swim Club, which operates Yost Pool, is aware of the impacts of the music heard outside of the pool area and is conscientious about keeping the volume at a minimal level for swimmers.
Ah yes rules and regulations make it near impossible to get anything done but still cost a park full of money. I don’t entirely agree with the author I wish it was as it was a long time ago but in my life the noise from children during a open swim could be heard from far away without music. The little traffic in the park trails kept damage to a minimum maybe we need to build walls or fences to keep people in? the problem is too many people and limited space you can’t really expect to be immersed in nature in a urban environment frankly it is hard to find those places at all anywhere these days especially if you are sticking to established trails. Go camping with a thousand strangers go hiking with another thousand today they are even running government buses out into crowded nature. I hear you but it is very rare today to only hear silence.
I’m sorry, but this is not true. First, the “wilderness” camp: How does good stewardship include trampling new trails into the stream bed, collapsing stream banks, running through stream beds, trampling tree roots, and worst of all, wildly screaming? Unfortunately, I don’t know how to include the many photographs I’ve taken of all the recent damage. Here are a couple excerpts from Parks’ own comprehensive plan, PROS: ” Many of the public lands that the City owns and manages host unique, high-value landscapes. These areas are prioritized for acquisition, conservation and restoration activities to ensure that they continue to thrive and provide their distinct ecosystem functions and benefits. High-quality waterfronts, woodlands and wetlands are all vital to preserving Edmonds’ diversity of habitats. Providing safe public access to and within these areas needs to be carefully balanced with the crucial goal of environmental stewardship and natural habitat protection.” (Page 75)
“The City manages several sizeable open space properties. At more than 10 acres, significant habitat for wildlife and a quiet experience for park visitors is buffered by nature from the surrounding urban environment. These open spaces include Maplewood Hill Park, Edmonds Marsh and Pine Ridge Park, as well as portions of Yost Memorial Park. These large open space areas contain a variety of distinct habitats, such as wetlands and creeks…” (Page 74)
…and now the pool. This also is not true. Just this morning as well as last week, I could distinctly hear the thump of a bass drum and other musical features, from atop Lookout Trail, in the far Southeast corner of the park. It is almost two hundred meters as the crow flies from the position of the speakers at the pool. No systematic, objective analysis has been done since I first brought this to the attention to Cascade Swim Club, Parks, and City Council members over a year ago. Parks has used methods that would be tossed out of any court room in seconds to try to assert that I can’t possibly be hearing the music where I’m hearing it. One example: Once, after I complained, the pool and Parks reviewed security footage in which the sound of a splash seemed to momentarily drown out the music. This was provided as proof that I couldn’t have heard the music any significant distance away! I’m serious. There’s never been any willingness to consider the complex acoustics involved–echoes, the unique signatures and interplay of different sounds and different music, the presence or absence of ambient sounds, the experience of swimmers with swim caps on and the sound of splashing, etc., vs. a person walking on a trail trying to listen to birds.
A perspective from an Edmonds native – 30 years ago the pool was much louder and more crowded than it is now. Yost appears to have gained life again now that Cascade Swim Club has taken over. Glad to see kids exercising and engaging with nature at Yost! Hopefully everyone can be respectful of their neighbors and nature, but to think an outdoor public pool with pickleball is going to be a quiet space is not reality.
My god if that post doesn’t win curmudgeon of the year . Yes Vince kids are enjoying the park and cascade swim club has brought renewed energy to Yost pool. Hate to break it but more young families are coming to Edmonds to flee the chaos of seattle. Get ready. Nothing in your post provides any evidence of silt runoff or impact to salmon if there’s even a salmon run (unlikely). Maybe lobby against the bureaucracy preventing the bridge. That’d be a win instead of these ridiculous complaints
There is much to say here but I’ll summarize by saying Vince’s observations align with my own. In the 15 years or so that I’ve frequented Yost Park it has depressingly deteriorated as an urban park preserving original Puget Sound lowland stream and forest habitat. I haven’t gone at all this summer as the soundscape, through much of the day, is dominated by 70s and 80s music – Steve Miller, Springsteen, Mellencamp. Wilderness Camps are an essential and admirable experience for youth as stated, but to shoehorn them into a relatively small urban park facing other critical challenges that an urban location presents is misguided to say the least. Sadly Yost Park rather than exposing youth to the wonders of wildness, habituates the degradation of ecosystems and poor stewardship of the natural landscape.
The idea of compelling children to listen to music from the 70s and 80s, such as Springsteen and Mellencamp, is excessive, borderline merciless. Perhaps the “wilderness” aspect mentioned in these camps refers to a dearth of contemporary tunes.
We have had salmon returning to lower Shell Creek for years. I raised salmon in my classroom at Edmonds Elementary for years, and they still do today. Shell Creek is our designated place to release them. Please, Please take the silt and erosion problem seriously. Thank you, Karyn Heinekin
Dear Pete, Check this out: https://myedmondsnews.com/2023/07/scene-in-edmonds-stream-team-monitors-shell-creek/
Also, Yost Park is (or was) a popular birding park: https://ebird.org/hotspot/L473858/bird-list?yr=cur&rank=mrec
Vince has expressed his experience and you, Pete, belittle and gaslight. Yost has absolutely gone downhill as far as maintaining trails and every other point as well.
Sorry no Buck. If there are city issues with maintenance fine, but to complain about kids enjoying the park (trampling around stumps, really?) with little to no evidence of damage, while ignoring the net benefit of the park to said kids is frankly ludicrious. If you can’t handle the sounds move to 1000 acres away from a township.
Vince, thank you for writing this piece. I don’t know why people, like someone who felt it necessary to write a nasty comment here, think it’s their (and their children’s) right to do whatever they want, anywhere they want. And to blame it on more people fleeing Seattle? What? So you wreck Seattle and now you want to come here and wreck this area, too? We need to be teaching our children about the precious natural environment and how to keep it safe and thriving, as well as how to be respectful, thoughtful, empathetic citizens. Unfortunately, you can’t teach what you don’t know or care about, but you can evolve and become curious about how to be part of the solution.
If that was your takeaway you completely missed the point. Having kids enjoy nature nature and educating them about stewardship is the point of the kids programs at the park. If you’re complaining about the noise of their joy, you’re not seeing the forest for the trees.
If that’s your takeaway, Pete, you’ve missed my point, as well as the point of this Reader View. Unfortunately, I’m not surprised.
None of these things were even mentioned so let’s come back to earth Annon. Also not surprised
You know, there are simply more of us in Edmonds using everything. The same is true everywhere. As population density increases, obviously so do PEOPLE increase. We have to acclimate to survive. I’m thinking that Yost Park is never going to quite be the way you remember it… I think it is nice to hear children and see that the park is being used…. There are more serene parks like Southwest County Park not too far away.
Wow…one of the most enlightening and entertaining exchange of ‘ideas’ I have read in awhile. As a long term resident of Edmonds frequenting Yost Park for over 30 years I have seen transition the whole time. Sometimes there’s been more people or bikes on the trails, there used to be more people at the pool with bigger events and more noise and music, and the biggest impacts have been the consistent falling of aged 100 ft trees during storms and the ‘murder of crows’ going after the owls. That doesn’t even mention the rerouting of Shell Creek over the years. Seeing kids enjoying the park is a terrific thing. If folks are looking for isolation to boost their wellbeing in an urban environment you’re going to be disappointed and disgruntled. Build a sound proof room or move to Eastern Montana where land is inexpensive and you can drive for 30 miles without seeing a house. Set your expectations accordingly.
I’ve noticed the park going downhill as well, but I’m not sure the wilderness camps or the pool are to blame. There seems to be more trash and graffiti, and yes, the crumbling infrastructure isn’t great either. I hope that bridge gets fixed soon!
I do sympathize with Vince and his quest for quiet and solitude. There are fewer and fewer spots to find these things. Here in town, the best remaining spot is probably Southwest County Park.
And denser housing will continue to smother Edmonds in a variety of ways.
“The indefinite closure of bridge #6 is a larger issue that involves numerous environmental agencies’ rules, regulations, and permits.”
I looked at the bridge and it appears there are a couple of rotten boards that need to be replaced. The above statement shows how environmental oversight can really make thing difficult and likely not actually help anything.
The problems with the bridge are more serious than that. If you look more closely natural erosion has undercut one side of it, and it will eventually become unstable if it isn’t already. Since there’s a decent drop involved (8 feet or so), someone could get hurt, so I understand the decision to rope the thing off.
But I think since it’s an established bridge that’s been there for decades, it ought to be a priority…
A house of sticks sitting right there in the open like that? Have the Three Little Pigs learned nothing?
Why have outdoor music anyway? We used to enjoy quiet, and thought the pleasure of swimming and the cries of kids enjoying themselves was enough. Who actually listens to the stuff (or picks the playlist, for that matter)? What about those who would prefer some other music? Or none?
We seem to live in an era where we “need” to be surrounded by “music” at all times and everywhere. We seem to prefer noise to quiet. Are we afraid to think our own thoughts and enjoy silence or natural sounds?
Why do we really need aural wallpaper wherever we go?
Yost Pool needs to turn off the music. I cannot enjoy playing with the g’kids with constant noise distraction. Music is completely unnecessary and presents no safety aspect … such as hearing Help! Help!
I love the park and the pool. From my perspective we are really fortunate to have both in our community. Thank you to cascade swim club for taking care of the pool and improving it. I want to express gratitude for all those contributing to Yost Park and Pool.
This is not just a “Yost Park” problem. The reopening of our Civic Park in the Edmonds Core has created an obstreperous environment that no doubt has George Brackett turning in his grave. Warm weather has provided a haven at City Park for the recalcitrant youth of surrounding areas to infiltrate replace our aural calm with a shrieking splashy din in a pernicious fashion. In my day parents would scold us physically when our play noise was obdurate. That sure taught us. What is wrong with the parents of today?
Oh, spare us the sanctimonious drivel. Your melodramatic whining about “recalcitrant youth” and nostalgic fantasies of yesteryear are as tiresome as they are laughable. The idea that the mere sound of children playing could somehow defile the sanctity of George Brackett’s legacy is peak absurdity.
Your condescending pining for the days of corporal punishment says more about your backward mentality than it does about “today’s parents.”
This seems overstated Brad. I agree that new and popular areas can take some getting used in terms of parking, noise, traffic. We get a bunch of visitors @ Lake Ballinger and it appears to me that parenting has been effective, we haven’t needed any spankings.
Wow! Purple prose award of the month! But I wonder how many youth you know. The ones I know are polite and well behaved, even though the parents are not “scolding physically.” Today I had two kids wave thanks to me when I stopped at a crosswalk, and had dinner with some very loving parents and their children – I had to compliment the parents on the very good manners of their kids.
My conclusion? Not much wrong with many parents today, and in my vast old age I can remember some pretty noisy kids half a century ago and more. Why, they even made a “splashy din” at the pool, though not, I think, in a “pernicious” nor “obdurate” way – just joy and fun. And it’s kind of hard not to be splashy at a pool.
We have been living in Edmonds for about 15 years. We fell in love with this neighborhood right away after we visited Yost Park. The lush forest and the soothing sound of Shell Creek …. Except for the occasional vehicle noise from the main road, you could almost pretend that you are on a walk in the wilderness. When Spring arrives, the sound of birds blanket the park. Edmonds is stop #1 on the Cascades Loop of “The Great Washington State Birding Trail” map according to the City of Edmonds. And Yost Park is one of the prime birding locations in Edmonds.
It is a different Yost Park now. It slowly transformed into the current state as the author mentioned. Yes, trees fell occasionally in the park and destroyed some bridges but how many years does it take to repair them? One of the major bridges has been blocked for a few years. It is quite unsightly.
I’m so pleased to see the outdoor pool is opened year round. Yes, it brings livelihood to the park but why is it necessary to play music loud enough to be heard from the trails inside the park?
As a mother, I was very pleased to see that children are spending their summer outdoor instead of playing video games. However, shouldn’t wilderness camp be teaching children how to respect trails, stream beds, and the home of wildlife? I’m confident that our children are capable of learning to be quiet and to leave no trace.
If you didn’t experience how Yost Park was like before you wouldn’t notice the deterioration because sadly it is a new norm. We will eventually have to move away from this neighborhood as we grow old but we can attempt to maintain the park for future residents and their children to enjoy or just let it be…..
People love to label things something whether it’s an accurate label or not. No one is giving these kids a “wilderness experience” because Yost Park is not a wilderness. They are letting kids play and probably learn a few good things in a city park, not a “wilderness.”
It’s an urban park with lots of trees and a formerly productive salmon and trout watershed both of which assets have been badly neglected and mismanaged by our city government for many years out of both ignorance of good scientific management and a simple lack of funds allocated to do things right. As if this isn’t bad enough we have park managers locked in analysis paralysis because we have a city attorney who sees a lawsuit against the city coming from every direction, some real but often imagined.
The city is getting sued and frequently losing because our Councils and Mayors keep falling for bad legal advice and cherry picked biased information from professional staff, and not following the direction of knowledgeable citizens and citizen boards that they are supposed to be representing and listening to. There is a reason our new Mayor has had to make staff changes and he will need to make more to make wonderful assets like our Yost Park urban forest and watershed better for everyone.
Clinton,
For at least 20 years, our “watersheds” and all our environmental assets have suffered because former mayors/administrations have consistently supported development over enforcement of our critical areas ordinance (CAO). In other words, blatant disregard for, rather than “ignorance of,” good scientific management has been demonstrated.
Joan, good point my friend and well taken. Edmonds (Deadmonds?) was a pretty prime place to live before certain Mayors and Council persons (not you) decided to SAVE it. And the beat goes on . . . . .
re: Janice Caspers’ letter: i am pretty darned sure Janice had her tongue firmly in cheek when she wrote her letter.
Maybe y’all could consider volunteering at the park? Like help maintain the trails or something?
I would be very happy to volunteer to fix the bridges. I have the tools and know-how. It sounds like red tape is hiding up progress. Maybe we need to keep reminding the parks dept that people used the bridges a lot.
Good idea. I’m quite sure the park would not stand for freelance trail improvement efforts–or maybe they would never know. Currently, there is no organized group doing it. I have volunteered twice to help remove invasive plants and another time to help plant native species. I have removed ivy from the trunks of cedar and fir trees on many occasions. I regularly pick up trash and dog poop bags discarded by irresponsible dog owners.
Our gratitude should go out to the many committed volunteers under the auspices of Sound Salmon Solutions who have done back breaking work weekend after weekend removing Holly, Ivy, Laurel, Himalayan Blackberry, and the ubiquitous “Stinky Bob.” This is really hard work.
Jim, good luck with that. Volunteers who know what they are doing get kicked out because we (the city) might get sued, even if the volunteers sign wavers.
I’m stunned by the appalling selfishness of Yost pool staff who loudly play their preferred, much less any, music at Yost Pool. Music doesn’t enhance swimmers enjoyment in the pool, so why play it? This shouldn’t be about whether or not the noise is allowed. Yost pool staff should voluntarily stop playing music. That’s something that could, and should, happen now.
Lawrence welk appropriate?
Pete,
I assume that nasty remark was to me. Not a Welk fan. I prefer P-Square. But thanks for allowing me to reiterate that swimmers don’t need music to enhance their enjoyment of swimming. Apparently, staff believe they are entitled to play music for their personal enjoyment while working at Yost Pool, without regard for those who prefer not to hear music while walking in Yost Park.
Nasty? Don’t be insecure about it. Lawrence Welk is genius. Just past it’s time
Joan, apparently Pete believes he can only express his opinion by verbally disrespecting those with whom he disagrees. Music does not belong at Yost Park. I know Pete, you think I’m old and that I listen to Lawrence Welk on my phonograph. Spoiler alert: I don’t, but even if I did does that mean that my opinion/life doesn’t matter? I know, I know, my partner and I just need to move from our home of 25+ years.
Joan, how dare you question the music? Don’t you know that this is also a vital part of the “Wilderness Experience” that our children are being provided at Yost Park. Drowning out natural sounds like birds singing, owls hooting, coyotes howling, and frogs croaking helps with learning how to breast stroke your way out of a raging river should the need ever arise. Or as Lawrence W. would say, “a-wonnerful a wonnerful tunes from ar’ lovely Lennon sisters to brighten our evening.”
In addition, on the ravine top in the north east corner of the park, there is a fairly large stone ring, which appears to have grown larger this year. As the stones are washed and rounded, the most logical source is down in Shell Creek. I don’t know who is doing this, but Parks should care. Micro and macro organisms live beneath them. Stones help impede the flow, which is especially important during the pulses that rush through during heavy rains. This is what caused or contributed to the bank erosion below Bridge 6. Above all the acrimony and digression, the fact remains that very real harm is being done to the forest around Shell Creek in Yost Park. Several years ago, the Girl Scouts installed about 6 signs on 4×4 posts around Yost Park which read, “To prevent erosion, please stay on designated trails.” At the bottom of the sign is the seal of the City of Edmonds. Only one of the signs remain. The posts of the others got knocked down and to this day remain strewn around the park. What has changed such that now it is clearly OK to trample new trails in the park? Let me put it this way: Until the salmon can position themselves as a source of revenue, they are on their own.
As for the bridge, let’s repair it and ask forgiveness rather than permission.
Now that the killing (shooting) of Barred Owls has been approved, the gunshots and owl bodies thudding to the ground will drown out the music…
I think you’re probably kidding, but discharging of any sort of firearm or air pistol is not allowed in any city parks. We don’t need people reading this and thinking it’s okay, there’s enough nonsense going on in the parks as it is even if we can’t agree on what sorts of nonsense are fine and what sorts need to stop. 😉
I wasn’t kidding about the planned killing of the Barred Owl, but yes, I imagine a heads-up will be given when the shooting starts. As for your concern for my comment, humorous sarcasm does wonders for my mental health.
They’re certainly not going to start blasting away with shotguns with people in the park, even if it’s birdshot and not especially dangerous if done by someone with the proper skills.
My point was that John Q. Public (or, you know, Dick Cheney) is not going to be allowed to hunt owls in the parks, that’s not what is happening. And I’d never try to stop anyone from making wisecracks, carry on, sir.
careful, humorous sarcasm can be taken very seriously on this page, especially if it involves famous accordionists
Search “barred owl cull” and you’ll see that US Fish & Game is starting to elliminate up to a half million owls in the West Coast, start date was yesterday…Puget Sound is central to the cull. Get ready for a super population of rats….not kidding.
Please please please close comment for this article. It is destroying my faith in humanity. 🙂
That is an excellent idea. Done!