Reader view/opinion: Listening and learning

We seem to be entering a time of perhaps even greater polarization than the last eight or 12 years. To be clear upfront, I am unabashedly on the liberal side of things, though I am happy to recognize that some conservative policies can be a very good thing. Ending government waste is one such – but we may differ on how that is to be achieved, and on what scale and at whose expense. What those are is a matter for another discussion, but what I want to emphasize and cry out for is respect.

Like it or not, we are a community, nationally, regionally and locally.  I pay my taxes too, I form my political opinions on my own life experience and religious beliefs, and need the same things you do. I also believe that we cannot do or have those things we all need, or believe in, without exercising dome mutual respect and forbearance.

Kenneth Clark, in the peroration of Civilization, said, “At this point I reveal myself in my true colours, as a stick-in-the-mud. I hold a number of beliefs that have been repudiated by the liveliest intellects of out time. I believe that order is better than chaos, creation better than destruction. I prefer gentleness to violence, forgiveness to vendetta. On the whole I think that knowledge is preferable to ignorance, and I am sure that human sympathy is more valuable than ideology…  I also hold one or two beliefs that re more difficult to put shortly. For example, I believe in courtesy, the ritual by which we avoid hurting other people’s feelings by satisfying our own egos.”

Color me stick-in-the-mud.

At the end of Jacob Bronowski’s The Ascent of Man (Ascent Of Man, episode 11 – Knowledge Or Certainty), Brownowski quotes Oliver Cromwell, in a letter to the Scottish Parliament in 1650, a quotation known as Cromwell’s Rule, “I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible that you may be mistaken.”  Having cited this, Bronowski wades into a pool at Auschwitz, where the ashes of cremated victims were dumped, and says that this is what comes of too much certainty.

Sir Karl Popper put forth his thesis that a theory is valuable only as far as we can disprove it; if we accept a theory as settled fact, we cannot adjust to new problems.  In The Open Society and its Enemies, Popper predicted the fall of communism and Nazism on those grounds: absolutism forbids new ideas and cannot admit mistakes, so it grows rigid, cannot adapt, and dies. And absolutism brings us things like Prohibition and book banning.

Which brings me back to my belief that we must exercise mutual respect and tolerance. That doesn’t mean we have to agree. But it does mean that we must restrain ourselves from denigrating each other and refusing to hear what the other side, with its equally legitimate life experience, has to say. The use of phrases such as “leftist” or “virtue signaling” are nothing less than an attempt to denigrate and dismiss another’s opinion without listening or learning. (Of course, sometimes we can justly doubt the honesty of another person who may be in it for the ride – power, profit, etc. But that’s another discussion too.)

Can we please, here in pleasant Edmonds, and in MEN, do ourselves the service of listening to each other, and grant each other the respect to acknowledge the other person’s honesty and dignity, and discipline ourselves, not to agree, not to back off from reasoned discussion, but to listen? To use facts and clear statements of our ideas, rather than emotions and suspicions? And just maybe – learn?

— By Nathaniel Brown

Nathaniel Brown is an Edmonds resident.

  1. I agree we should be willing to listen to each other with respect even if we may disagree. Too much of our discourse on politics is laced with name calling and sometimes naked hatred of those who view the world different from you. Friendships get cancelled and families become estranged because they cannot have a civil discussion when they may disagree. We all need to remember we are blessed to live in a great country and community. That does not mean there are not problems to be solved. We probably agree more than not about what those problems are but we we disagree on the means and methods to solve them. Some solutions will be tested and if they fail alternatives will need to be discussed and engaged if found worthy.

  2. Amen, Mr. Brown. That’s what I’ve been saying all along. I ask all people who watch the news, please remember, it’s only partial news, regardless of whether it’s CNN, MSNBC, or FOX NEWS. The majority is the news commentator’s opinion with a sprinkle of real truth. The very definition of commentator is, a person who comments or remarks on an event. It’s their truth, not necessarily objective facts. The true facts would allow us to form our own opinions verses the influence of the commentators opinion.

  3. “In the community of the good, goodness is hereditary; it is impossible for a bad man to grow out of such good soil. Should one of the good men nevertheless do something unworthy of good men, one resorts to excuses; one blames God, for example, saying that he struck the good man with blindness and madness. Then, in the souls of oppressed, powerless men, every other man is taken for hostile, inconsiderate, exploitative, cruel, sly, whether he be noble or base. Evil is their epithet for man, indeed for every possible living being, even, for example, for a god; “human,” “divine” mean the same as “devilish,” “evil.” Signs of goodness, helpfulness, pity are taken anxiously for malice, the prelude to a terrible outcome, bewilderment, and deception, in short, for refined evil. With such a state of mind in the individual, a community can scarcely come about at all–or at most in the crudest form; so that wherever this concept of good and evil predominates, the downfall of individuals, their clans and races, is near at hand.” – Well written op ed – and Friedrich had it right.

  4. “The News” should just be, “the news” with virtually no opinion interjected. Opinion should be reserved for and labeled – “editorial content.” There should be a difference between a straight news program and a news commentary program. There is a difference between news and propaganda and opinion. I think the problems in news communication really started when news evolved into more of another form of entertainment than just a communication of what’s going on. When TV was young there was a half hour of local news and weather and then a half hour of national news and weather and that was about it. Now there is two hours of local news and weather that is about half national news because there just isn’t enough local news to fill the space. Then there is an hour of national news and weather. On Fox and MSNBC it is all news and commentary all day long that’s well sprinkled with lots of bias. It’s little wonder that people get brainwashed and closed minded if they consume this day in and day out.

  5. Opinion is sometimes “sprinkled with a little truth” but opinion can and is often spot on. Most local and national news services have about 15 minutes of news, 12 minutes of commercials and 1 or 2 puff pieces. Newspapers have opinion pages but unfortunately the opinion of the editors and reporters often leak over to the news. The Seattle Times is a great example of this. It is nearly impossible to find a story that is not slanted and that’s why they are a failing business.

    Did anyone watch the Trump/Musk conversation on Fox last night? YES it was a Friendly, however, it provided a terrific view on how DOGE came to be; insight into the Trump, Musk relationship; what is DOGE and how ‘they’ approach their goal; Whether you are left, right or on the fence (if their is anyone alive who is on the fence), if you are curious, if you follow national politics and if you are open to listen to all sides you should watch it. It was on the Sean Hannity show at 6 pm on Tuesday. It is worth the watch.

    “We have become a Bureaucracy not a Democracy”

  6. Scott, I have lots of opinions but I don’t try to convince anyone that my “opinions” are absolute truth. I understand what Trump and Musk are trying to do with cutting fraud, waste and abuse in government but when Trump says he can’t let obeying the law get in his way of saving our country (a country that was founded based on the rule of law and no man is above the law) I get a little concerned. Watching Sean Hannity to get an unbiased view of the world’s latest news is like going to a Christian church to learn about all the good things the Devil has done for us lately. I would absolutely defend your right to watch and believe everything Sean Hannity says but I doubt you feel the same about my right to watch PBS Nightly news where I feel I get an honest attempt at presenting truth and both sides of all the issues. Indeed, I suspect you and Sean probably think getting rid of PBS news would be another step in cutting waste, fraud and abuse in government, even though PBS is mostly funded with donations from individuals and foundations. Please feel free to tell us all what your views are on PBS news and it’s objectivity or not. Freedom of speech is everything. Without that we are slaves.

    1. Amen Clinton. You said it all. The fact that Presidents (and the current one being a very topical example) that routinely challenge the Judicial and Legislative branches through the Executive Order – shines in the face of transparency. I do believe that the egos of both Musk and Trump afford a unique view into transparency – they, by design, cannot help but talk. I love NPR, I think PBS programming is awesome, and also find “The Five” and “The Maddow Show” entertaining – but not honest (they are opinion shills making a ton of money telling half truths and speculation – sort of like televangelists, but instead of our donations, they get paid by Corporates running ads).

      It’s odd, but if you spend a week with BBC (where they are actually news readers), Al Jazeera (slanted but a very interesting viewpoint) and PBS News – I seem to get what I would call “fair and balanced” news that does not create social optics and OpEd shows – just some plain facts from various viewpoints that are not intended to increase viewership, but increase awareness.

      I think that Musk and Trump are cutting deep – it’s an old business trick and I am at odds with myself (and my wife) if it is the right approach, but the intentional boundary pushing in legal terms is frustrating.

  7. Whoa, all I said was that it was worth watching. I called it a “conversation and a “Friendly”. Hannity is an open book, you know where he’s coming from and it certainly isn’t from the center. I thought the discussion was worth watching – regardless of your political leanings. I did not insist that you stay on FOX and drink the Kool Aid.
    Not sure how a defense of PBS entered this conversation; PBS is a fine outfit, their presentation of the news leans in one direction as much as it does on FOX, CBS or CNN. It’s nearly impossible to find total neutrality from any news organization. If time permitted we should pay attention to as many analysts, media organizations and purveyors of the news as possible but for most people that isn’t practical. MEN offers a great format for sharing viewpoints.

    OPINION: I think DOGE is a brilliant concept and given time it will be lauded for cutting costs and waste.

    Executive orders by recent Presidents:
    Trump 2025 66 orders
    Biden 1 tm 162
    Trump 1st tm 220
    Obama 2 tm 277
    Bush 291
    Clinton 364

    1. “Their presentation of the news leans in one direction as much as it does on Fox, CBS or CNN.” That’s kind of exactly what I thought you would say, Mr. Victor. I notice you said it like it is a fact not just an opinion. Thanks so much for making my point in your response.

  8. I think Trump and Musk are just putting on a big show for Trump’s base of supporters and they are not who got him elected. Swing voters on farms, in the factories and in the government are the ones who elected him and as more and more of them get financially crippled by his and Musk’s ill thought out and self serving attempts at “saving money” those people will turn on them. Trump knows this and that’s why he has to project an imaginary need to ignore the law even when he has the House, the Senate, and most of the Supreme Court in his hip pocket. I suspect the Supreme Court wanting to keep it’s power and the huge public demand to keep free speech and the freedom of assembly will be Trump’s ultimate downfall, but he will never give up the Presidency until he dies or is forced out of the white house at the point of a gun. Jan. 6th. was not an accident.

    1. Apparently Trump has directed the SecState to review all treaties that the US is party to and make recommendations for withdrawal. Stay tuned for more former friends and allies to lose all trust in us.

  9. Would someone be able to point out my error in math or rationale? Let me say first that President Trump is the elected executive after a fair election process.
    From any records of the election that I have seen, and I believe anyone can verify, Trump got 49.5% of the popular vote (more than anyone else) in an election that saw a 65% turnout. So Trump was elected president with 49.5% of 65% of the electorate, or 32% of those who could vote did vote for him.
    What’s the point of this? Certainly not to say that Trump should not be president. Rather I suggest that he was not elected with a mandate of a huge amount of support. It was actually quite narrow. He campaigned on fixing the country’s borders and inflation. However one interprets events at the southern border, it is clear at present that he has so far done nothing to lower prices. On the contrary prices have gone up. In the process he is creating a constitutional crisis, endangering the health and safety of all, hanging Ukrainians out to dry after we have given them repeated assurances and money in support, and inexplicably renaming natural physical features. People who did not vote for Trump need to speak up to their federal representatives against his actions.

  10. Actually the Mandate is based on the Electoral College which is the law of the land. The Democrats want to get every vote in California New York Washington Oregon but still don’t get enough electoral votes they lose the election. I understand you don’t like Trump and will rationalize anything possible to show your disdain. Fair enough. Without going into the historical reasons for the Electoral College I would say if you don’t like it try to change it good luck with that plan. Whatever weaknesses we have with our current system I would rather have it than a parliamentary system which I think is downright stupid, like the current situation Canada is in.

  11. Thank you!

    Days after “accidentally” firing nuclear safety workers, Trump and Musk have “accidentally” fired the people racing to protect the American public from bird flu. This is stupid beyond belief. We are at risk.

  12. Mike, my good friend, do you mean to tell us that Zalensky isn’t really a Dictator that caused the invasion of his own country by the democratically elected Putin? Next I suppose you will be telling us that there really aren’t hundreds of dead people over 100 years old collecting social security benefits and the FBI isn’t a corrupt arm of the Deep State that’s out to destroy America. I suppose you even want us to believe the 2020 election wasn’t stolen and that Trump doesn’t deserve three terms to be fair, if he can just keep that Big Mac fueled beautiful body with the worlds most elaborate comb over hair-do going another 8 years or more. We finally have that King we always wanted and you go and try to spoil it. What a Debbie Downer, you are. See you soon at the B.H. for some laughs and escape from all this nonsense we are forced to put up with daily now, nationally and locally. Read Rick Steve’s article in the Beacon this week. Now there is a real man among men in IMHO.

  13. Brian, sorry to disappoint your effort to rationalize the narrow mandate of President Trump. Regardless of the Electoral College, Trump won with 32% of the vote of the electorate. Contrary to what you think, I know the reason for and the significance that it has had in denying the one-man-one vote ideal for democracy. In fact the College might be one reason why 36% of the electorate did not vote. At least Nebraska and Maine are willing to separate their college votes. At any rate even Trump was thrilled to finally win the popular vote, for a change. So it was a big deal for him.
    Yes, I do not think Trump is doing a good job. I respect him since he holds the office. Each time I see him in his MAGA baseball cap, which is against the rules of his office, I know he has no respect for me as a citizen of this country.

  14. Thank you, Michael. The ship of state is being steered into dangerous waters indeed, not just for our fragile democracy which some seem ready to starve or even throw overboard, but for the world and the future of us all. Among today’s Guardian headlines:

    “The Trump administration is stripping away support for scientific research in the US and overseas that contains a word it finds particularly inconvenient: “climate.”

    “The US government is withdrawing grants and other support for research that even references the climate crisis, academics have said, amid Donald Trump’s blitzkrieg upon environmental regulations and clean-energy development.”

  15. I can read the room here and tell that there’s no actual open-mindedness to hear any other side. It’s going to be a long 59 more months for some, so probably best to drink heavily. Tip: it’s probably not going to be a good idea to run Harris in 2028 even though she was the intellectual leader of your party.

  16. Brian, since I would prefer to respect you and your opinions, I must object at your back-handed accusation that I am not open-minded. I did not object when Bush won with 500,000 less votes than Gore. I praise his efforts to combat HIV-AIDs. I accepted Trump’s victory even though he had almost 3 million votes less than Clinton. I praise his fast-tracking of the vaccine against Covid. I criticized both when I disagreed with them. They both deserved respect as Presidents. The same goes for Trump now. This is more than he ever gave Biden. I asked if anyone found flaws in my math. No one has so far. So Trump is clearly wrong to claim a huge mandate. In fact all federally elected officials should be seeking compromise to solve problems because the country elected its representatives with narrow margins. Trump has chosen to go without any input from moderate Democrats. Some did show a willingness to cooperate when they voted for some of Trump’s poor choices for cabinet positions. I must admit that right now I do not see the possibility of much good coming from him, but I work at keeping an open mind.

    1. Trump has chosen to go without input from anyone:

      ‪Alt National Park Service‬ ‪@altnps.bsky.social‬:
      ·
      “We have been careful to avoid using the word coup, but it’s time to call it what it is—this is a coup. Trump signed an executive order granting only the attorney general or the president the authority to interpret laws executed by the executive branch.”

      I do not see much good coming from any of this.

  17. As of today it’s not looking too good for Mr., “only I can fix it.” The Dow Jones lost another 748 points after a big loss yesterday. Latest inflation numbers are way up. Housing sales are down. Trump’s approval numbers are already below 50% according to three polls after only a month and normal Republican legislators are starting to get heat from their constituents who are getting thrown out of work by the Musk Man and his phony DOGE. Trump is still blaming Biden for the bad economy that Trump was going to fix on day one. Sorry, but it is starting to look like all MAGA has really given us is the Wizzard of Oz. Respect this guy? I choose not to.

    1. Meanwhile, back at Musk’s DOGE ranch,

      Jacob Silverman reports at Substack:

      Among the cadre of DOGE engineers now rooting through the guts of the administrative state, few have attracted more curiosity than Edward… Coristine, a 19-year-old coder who interned for three months for Neuralink, Elon Musk’s brain implant company.

      Coristine has a brief but colorful history that includes being fired from Path Networks, a cybersecurity company, for giving company documents to a competitor. He apparently palled around with a criminal hacking group called The Com and, according to a Telegram account associated with him, had solicited hacking services online.

      There’s one aspect of Coristine’s background that has escaped public notice: his grandfather, Valery Martynov, was a KGB spy who played an intriguing role in a sprawling 1980s espionage drama.

  18. Teresa, don’t you think all opinions have been covered pretty good here and it’s time to close this thing out

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