This article was updated to correct the spelling of Dr. Neil Sehgal’s name and also to update the crowd estimate, based on an online estimating app and AI, which was provided to us.
A group estimated at more than 4,500 gathered at Edmonds’ Civic Field Saturday morning to raise their voices in protest over what they see as the hijacking of American democracy by the Trump administration.
Organized and promoted by Indivisible Edmonds in association with Snohomish County Indivisible, the event featured keynote speaker Rick Steves and included additional remarks by other speakers including State Sen. Marko Liias, Edmonds United Methodist Church Rev. Jeremy Smith, University of Washington Public Health Professor Dr. Neil Sehgal, Edmonds City Councilmember Susan Paine and Lynnwood City Councilmember Josh Binda.
Sharon Otness, one of the original five founders of Snohomish County Indivisible, welcomed the crowd, remarking that it was the shared desire to turn “anger into action” that prompted the group’s formation.
She was followed by event emcee Judi Gladstone, who set the tone by emotionally expressing her frustration with the current administration in Washington, D.C.
“I am here today as a resident of this United States, just like you,” she began. “I’m angry, I’m scared, I’m frustrated and I’m ashamed of what is happening in our country. This week’s immigration raids and protests in California shocked many of us. Also hanging over us today is the celebration of our president’s birthday with a military parade costing upward of $45 million. I may be angry and ashamed of these events, but today I am here to peacefully speak out and speak up for democracy.”
The parade was held in honor of the U.S. Army’s 250th birthday.
Gladstone then introduced State Sen. Marko Liias, a 21st District Democrat from Edmonds, who drew parallels between the current administration’s tactics and those used against historical protests like the Stonewall riots. He acknowledged the recent “devastating” loss of Minnesota House Speaker Melissa Hortman, who “just a few hours ago gave her life in service to the people of Minnesota,” and called for renewed vigilance and resistance against what he described as the Trump administration’s efforts to distract and divide the nation.
“That’s how he thinks he can subvert the Constitution — by distract and divide,” Liias stressed. “So when he issues an order on his first day in office saying there are only two genders, there’s one reason why he’s doing that: to distract and divide…but it goes further than that pernicious order. He announces and talks about who can go to the bathroom because he really wants to distract you from what he’s doing in the classroom, dismantling the Department of Education. It’s all part of his distract and divide strategy, and we cannot allow him to do that.”
Liias was followed by Chris Weare and Diane Nelson, leading the attendees in the traditional protest song We Shall Overcome.
Edmonds United Methodist Church Rev. Jeremy Smith then spoke of the values of the church, remarking that “justice is what love looks like in public.”
Additional remarks followed from immigration lawyer Terry Preshaw, who spoke of what she termed the recent unconstitutional deportation activities of the Trump administration; Dr. Neil Sehgal of the University of Washington School of Public Health, who decried the impact of Medicare and research funding cuts; and Tesla protest organizer Carlo Voli who reminded the gathering of the continuing threat posed by Elon Musk and other “oligarchs” like him.
Edmonds City Councilmember Susan Paine was next. She spoke of her ancestor, a signer of the Declaration of Independence, which laid out in plain language how kings were subverting liberty. “And it’s happening again now,” she said.
She was followed by Lynnwood City Councilmember Josh Binda, who introduced himself as a first-generation American and the son of two Liberian refugees who “came here with nothing” to escape dictatorship in their home country.
“And now it’s happening here,” he added.
Gulf War veteran Amanda Thornton-Dewitt related how she joined the Navy at 17 years old and swore to “protect our country against all enemies, foreign and domestic.” And she said that despite suffering a broken back in a service-related injury, she remains true to that oath.
Next was keynote speaker Rick Steves.
“We gather here today as patriots, not Democrats or Republicans,” he began. “I’m wearing my purple shirt today – it’s what you get when you mix red and blue.”
He went on to say that democracy is on the line, and how he sees the Trump administration as threatening our bedrock institutions by privatizing public health, public education, public lands and parks, and more.
“These institutions limit his power, and he wants total control,” Steves continued. “Trump’s goal from the very start, has been to ruin our trust in institutions and he is brilliant at it. From the New York Times to the Kennedy Center, he’s ruining institutions and putting in his ideologues to accomplish that ruination.
“Take as an example how he first discredited the USAID [US Agency for International Development] as an institution and then destroyed it. Since then, in less than a couple of months, an estimated 300,000 people have died resulting from DOGE (Department of Government Efficiency) cuts, not to mention ruining our standing with the other 96% of the world, and destroying our impact on the developing world, where the Voice of America will soon be replaced by the voice of China. That’s not how you make American great.”
Steves said he believes that the real agenda behind the cuts made in the name of government efficiency is to fund tax cuts for the rich and cripple the IRS to the point where the rich can easily cheat on taxes.
“It’s been a Republican dream for decades,” he said. “Twenty years ago, in the age of George Bush’s presidency, Republicans bragged that they would shrink government to where it would fit into a bathtub and then they’d drown it. That is not in the interest of the people of the United States. When you have a capitalist system, it needs a referee. I am a capitalist. I’m a good capitalist. I love it, but it needs a referee. And the only logical referee is our government.”
He concluded with a call to come together in solidarity to save democracy.
“We are in a battle today for our freedom, but it’s not going to be fought overseas by people in uniform. It will be fought here and we are the troops,” he said. “We have a president who is no servant of the people. Trump’s administration is waging war on America. It’s killing our nation’s heart and soul from within. But they’ll only succeed if we let them. We are not a lunatic far left fringe. We are American citizens and we’re waking up and mobilizing for an America that is of, by and for the people — not a king.
“Thank you very much, and God bless America.”
Following Steves’ remarks the group broke up, many walking to the Masonic Hall/Old Opera House to build on the spirit of the day by singing along to classic protest and resistance songs.
My favorite quote from the day was when Amanda Thornton-Dewitt , US veteran, said her “gasts were flabbered. What a breath of fresh air from someone who gave so much to protect our constitution and was out there on the line once again. No kings.
Wish I could have been there!
me too
Wow. I wish I could have been there.
Nice to see a peaceful event in Edmonds versus Portland, NY and LA. The good news is our country does have a Constitution, three branches of government and laws for our citizens. The USA will never be run by a King.
You know the protests have mostly been peaceful everywhere. The MAGA noise machine needs them to be violent to support their king’s actions.
Thank you for this report of a great event. One correction I would like to make is that the correct prefix for Jeremy Smith is Rev. (Pastors may or may not have completed seminary education and been ordained. Reverends always have)
We have made that correction.
I too was there at the Edmonds rally and although I could not hear a word from the speakers I was moved by the crowd especially by all the children and their handmade signs. My daughter who lives in Portland attended the rally and march which was very peaceful and attended by the tens of thousands.
Rick Steve’s comments yesterday should not go unchallenged.Time and space will limit my comments but I’ll address two.As regards USAid,it was determined that there was enough waste to eliminate(or reduce) this program.The administration has already stepped back on certain issues.The US is the largest supplier of assistance globally and according to a NORC poll of March2023,90% of Republicans and 55% of Democrats feel we overspend on foreign aid.To suggest Donald Trump has the blood of 300,000 people on his hands is preposterous.The government as referee is another miscalculation.The people are the ultimate referee through their elected officials.And as I’ve told my friends on the left(and far left),this country made a very fundamental,decisive,pronounced shift to the right last November.Rejecting open borders and defunding the police(and noticing the difference between boys and girls) were significant priorities.And if it makes anyone feel better,I strongly disagreed with the January 6th pardons.
Way to go Edmonds! We were in solidarity with you on Orcas Island where about 1000 of us gathered. It was a good day.
4,500+ in little ole’ Edmonds! And over 70,000 in Seattle! Millions across the country! Darn… don’t they know what they missed? They could have been listening to country music and watching a few squeaky tanks rumbling down the streets of D.C.
This event was well-organized and the casting of the speaker line-up was fantastic- varied approaches/ subject areas and talented speakers. I love that they also deployed a group of monitors, trained in de-escalation, to assist with safety. Even though there was a slight hiccup with the PA system, they did their best to pivot and it all came together with minimal disruption from menaces. It was all around an impactful event. Thank you to everyone who helped make it possible.
Rick Steves is a national hero and great patriot. He urged various social groups, all Democrats and Centrist old style Republicans to all join forces and stop this would be tyrant Trump thru peaceful protest. It was truly a great and historical speech and I’m so glad I attended. I’d like to assure Frank Demme and Mark Bucklin that it was all totally peaceful with no vandalism or extreme litter for them to have to pay for. NO KINGS!
Great reporting and photos. Love the Edmonds Landing folks – go seniors! (I’m one too). I was there so I know what an amazing gathering it was. I saw an early report of 2000 & I figured – that’s wrong! We could see the size of the crowd as we were in it. Drone overhead (at which I waved my flag) – so I’m glad there are tech things that can more accurately estimate crowd size. I esp. knew there was way more than 2K when I saw that in a small town nearby of 7K residents, they had 3K at their gathering (if I recall). Glad I missed whatever minimal menaces there were as I didn’t see any. Being right across from the police station might be another deterrent, but this is Edmonds–we definitely had an Edmonds Kind of Day with No Kings on board. Thank you organizers and wonderful speakers.
Well reported. My favorite part was singing “We ShShall Overcome”.
The turnout fills my heart with hope! No Kings!
I was at the rally at Cal Anderson Park. We walked from there to the Seattle Center. And yes, there must have been 70,000 people!
The march was organized and peaceful. The propoganda about riots, property damage and assaults is just another way to make us fearful.
Yesterday I was proud to live in the USA. Let’s not quit now!
The only kings I want are ones in my fishing net!
I’m not clear why some people are so unhappy with Elvis but to each his own I guess.
Bravo to Edmonds!!! Anything done to deflate that ghastly orange gas-bag masquerading as President is work well done.
Judi Gladstone, shame on you for misleading the public with your uninformed comment about the military parade yesterday in Washington DC. You said it was a parade for Trump’s birthday. You need a history lesson regarding our military. It was the 250th anniversary of the formation of our US ARMY. Unfortunately, it fell on Trump’s birthday, AS WELL AS JD VANCE’S wedding anniversary. Was the parade for Vance’s anniversary too? You forgot to add that to your incorrect comment. People like you do nothing but add fuel to the angry fire that people are already feeling. Get your facts straight before you voice your opinion in public. You should be thanking the military, especially, the US ARMY, because without them, you and the rest of us would be under British rule. Yes, they fought and won the Revolutionary War. In addition, they won the war against the Germans and the Japanese. I am so grateful for our brave soldiers, especially having grown up on military bases. My Dad was in the military for over 20 years. They deserved this parade and celebration. And by the way, as long as the tanks go slow and straight, they don’t tear up the roads. So no, it won’t cost $16 million dollars to repair them.
I don’t know why Robert Bailey’s post is the only one that has no direct “reply” option. I’d add that “Polling has shown that Americans tend to overestimate the amount of the federal budget dedicated to foreign aid, with many thinking it makes up about 31% of the budget, when in fact it’s closer to 1% or less. … “While the overall data indicates a significant number of Republicans feel the US overspends on foreign aid, recent surveys also suggest that after learning about the actual amount spent (approximately 1% of the federal budget), the proportion of Republicans who believe the US spends “too much” declines significantly.” As for the “decisive right turn”, yes, the maga candidate did win the election by 1.47% of the popular vote. Hardly decisive. And yes, he did win the Electoral College by a significant amount – a very unfortunate old, outmoded construct that should have been relegated to the dust bin of history in order to effectuate truly fair elections. But nooo….we cling onto it. Since then the former “reality star” turned president is relentlessly attempting to march the United States into an autocracy with himself as the head – crowned or otherwise. Not okay.
Yes. I wanted to reply to Robert Bailey’s post but could not. Many Americans feel we spend too much on foreign aid but when asked think we spend 10-25% of our federal budget on foreign aid, not the less than 1% that is real. And there was no determination of excessive waste, fraud, and abuse except by Elon and other zealots. The reality is hundreds of thousands of lives could have been saved to date by continuing USAID and millions more will perish because of it’s illegal cancellation.
In answer to Robert Bailey, foreign aid is a drop in the bucket of our annual Federal Budget. It was 1.17% of the 2023 budget and worth every dime in terms of the international goodwill that it creates. You and people like you just don’t get it. We don’t want Donald Trump or any other President, (Republican or Democrat), to run the government by decree or proclamation running over and cancelling out the people we elect to make the laws and the policies of our Constitutional Republic (key word there is CONSTITUTIONAL). This ego maniac President you love so much Pardoned the Jan. 6th. criminals because he is a convicted criminal himself and they were rioting for him to be able to break election law. These demonstrations aren’t going away and they will be peaceful as long as that mental midget in the White House doesn’t manage to promote another riot or two just like the Jan. 6th. one that you very weakly suggest he shouldn’t have given pardons for. Trump is a dangerous man and a huge threat to whatever we have left of a real Representative Democracy which is what a Constitutional Republic is.
Clinton! Thank you, thank you! You’ve nailed it right on the proverbial head (with or without a crown). I do not understand how so many are willing to overlook (or unable to see) the illegality and grifting currently being performed upon the American people by this con man and his administration. But overlook or excuse or ignore it, they do. We have already seen the Marines zip tie a veteran who was on Veteran’s Administration business. What’s wrong with that picture folks?
Mr. Wright:”When angry,count to ten.When very angry,count to ten slowly.” Mark Twain
Mr Bailey: “When you can’t refute the message, attack the messenger.”
Also Twain: “Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.”
Kinda takes me back..
“All we are saying is give Peace a chance”
The attendees look very white and many from the Vietnam protest years.
Just can’t let the good ol’ days go
…Just sayin
Donald, did you actually attend the thing? One of the speakers was even Black, a Lynnwood City Councilman. There were all kinds of people there – young, old, men, women, Black, Brown, Gay, Trans- you name it. Of course it looked fairly White because the local population is probably at least 80% White, so what did you expect to see? People are trying to make this something it isn’t. It’s pretty simple. Lots of us just don’t want Donald Trump appointing people like Elon Musk to government agencies that they invented themselves with no vote or input from our elected representatives . A Revolution was fought and won not to have a damn King or Dictator and this is a continuation of that battle that most of us never thought we would have to fight again. This time we will beat it with words and protest instead of guns (unlike the first time) but we will not quit until we win. Ghandi brought down the British Empire with peaceful protest so we can sure as Hell knock this Clown out using the same tactics. He’s the one who will provoke and promote violence if there is any. He’s even said we won’t need any more elections now – the words of a totally certifiable madman.
Best I can figure he is no more or less of a king than yesterday. But I guess if y’all got your frustration out it is a good thing. Good chance to experience what Edmonds is going to be like when we are all packed in like sardines. Can’t wait until we start treating our neighbors like we treat our president.
Sounds like you should have been there; you might have learned something.
Jim, why would you of all people think this rich Oligarch gives two hoots in Hell about you or anyone else that isn’t already insanely wealthy in this country? His “big beautiful bill” is nothing but a “big ugly hoax.” There is a little tiny and temporary cut in taxes for the poor and middle class that sunsets about the time he leaves office, assuming he doesn’t arbitrarily decide to stay as he has hinted he will try to do with a third term. On the other hand there is a permanent large cut in corporate taxes and for the high wage earners in the country that lasts forever, unless blocked somehow. When you support this guy by suggesting he doesn’t want to be a king or dictator, that is also what you are supporting. You should be glad that people are finally waking up to the phony b.s; not supporting the phony b.s like you are. I’m not questioning your very real right to support him but I do question your apparent belief that everyone else should too, when they are equally sure he is just a madman that is unfit for the office he holds – Just based on his late response to the Jan. 6th. riots and his pardoning of the perpetrators who were nothing but criminals. He pardons known criminals.
There you go with the sardines again. It was no more appropriate this time than your last use of it.
What a glorious day for democracy! I am so proud of my neighbors, my elected officials, and my church. This is how countries regain their democracy, by peaceful, joyful protest.
This is really not, or at least it shouldn’t be, a partisan issue. It’s an issue of a narcissist who has just said that he wants ICE to concentrate on Democratic states and cities, making it partisan. It’s an issue of an authoritarian attempt to recind the Constitution, despite taking an oath to defend it. It’s an issue of political violence,as in Minnesota, and a elected senator making unseemly remarks about that tragedy. It’s an issue of the pardoning of people who assaulted police officers doing their duty. It’s an issue of inappropriately using the military within the United States, when the local police could have easily handled the problem. It’s an issue of profiting from the office of president in ways that cheapen the office. It’s an issue of ignoring due process and civil rights. It’s an issue of ignoring real medical science. It’s an issue of an attempt to destroy institutions of higher learning. It’s an issue of ignoring climate change at a time when we absolutely need to do something. It’s an issue of antagonizing our allies and befriending our enemies. It’s because of these and many more that I joined the protest! I’m proud of Edmonds!
Personally, it was a peaceful protest against the current administration (at least in Edmonds), and that’s what is part of our great experiment that makes things work. Whether you support the President or not, lawful assembly and dissent are positive things that allow a community to learn and grow. Kudos to the organizers amd to the peaceful crowd that rallied in support of their beliefs. Each side has their rhetoric and the proof to support it, and ain’t no problems in expressing either side in a respectful manner. No one was told to get in line, no one was prevented from a dissenting opinion, and it looks like an event that should make Edmonds proud and an example of peaceful resistance . Kudos to Edmonds. It was a bit different in Chicago, but mostly peaceful.
June 14 was Flag Day. Where were all the flags? It would’ve been nice to see them lining the streets.
There were hundreds of them, perhaps thousands, on Civic Field, celebrating democracy. and not just a passive display. The flag in action!
I carried my U.S. flag. It’s the only “sign” i need & there were many flags at all the protests clear across this great land, including many at our Edmonds gathering.
I can’t and won’t try to speak for everyone, but for me it was not a peaceful protest against the current administration. It was a peaceful protest against anyone who would ever talk or act like this obviously very sick and degenerate man trying to divide and create conflict among the American people. I’d be protesting him if he claimed to be a Democrat or Socialist or whatever else one could dream up. If this were Obama or even one of their own like Romney, the Republicans would have impeached him in a New York second. If this man succeeds in becoming a dictator it’s because good Republicans sat on their hands and let it happen It’s time for all good people who don’t want a dictator to stand up and fight – with peaceful but persistent protest. Show your patriotism and show the flag because this sicko doesn’t own it – WE ALL DO!
Clinton – I think you’re saying that this is about standing up peacefully for what is right vs wrong and I agree with you.
To underline your point, Clinton, he is now pushing to create an incident so he can call in the troops. ABC reports:
“President Donald Trump on Monday doubled down on his goal to conduct mass deportations in some of the country’s biggest cities, specifically those run by Democrats.
“As he met with Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney at the G7 summit in Alberta on Monday, Trump said Immigration and Customs Enforcement should turn its attention to New York and Chicago in addition to Los Angeles.”
Elsewhere, The Guardian reports:
“Doctors at Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) hospitals nationwide could refuse to treat unmarried veterans and Democrats under new hospital guidelines imposed following an executive order by Donald Trump.
“… But individual workers are now free to decline to care for patients based on personal characteristics not explicitly prohibited by federal law.”
Democracy and equality are under fire, and the tragedy is that that’s just okay with some of our fellow citizens.
It is a uphill battle whether it is me pushing back against a overwhelming partisan policy in this state or a slight national interest in policy that my friends condemn so vigorously, I would like to argue the points here but I don’t think our moderator would let us take it that far. Hit me up I’ll give you a earful. I do appreciate the ability to disagree and Edmonds certainly showed their disagreement, I hate to say it but well done. But it it leaves little room for those apposed to local county and state policy that is taxing many into poverty. No kings for the win! A battle lost is no indication of victory. The little I heard gives me no indication of a better path forward.. just opposition to any other point of view. Have a great night as you prepare for the RFA annexation and get ready to eat another grand in taxation plus state tax increases, apparently these things are of little concern to no kings protesters. I will go quietly into the night with the majority of our local people giving no quarter to dissenters. Sound familiar..
Jim, with all due respect (and I understand that it seems as if you think this is one-sided), but IF the fascist, racist, christian nationalist movement becomes the law of the land (whether the guy in the WH crowns himself king or manages to illegally obtain a 3rd term as a reality star fake president), then local politics (RFA, taxation, etc.) won’t matter at all because freedom is on the chopping block. So I hear your frustration but I’d say there is a bigger moment that we are called to here. I just watched CBS Sunday Morning’s segment on our own American Revolution which was fought, with many lives lost, to say “No Kings” – that means, no monarch (or dictator) imposing their will. Home grown militias fighting the British Empire & won, though it was bloody, many lives lost. So what do we owe those ancestors of ours who fought to long and hard to gain….freedom? And what did my father, uncles, and their generation fight (and so many died) to eradicate the nazi menace and free Europe? So that we could stare down the barrel of fascism right here on our shores? So for now, we address the bigger challenge–the challenge to freedom. That’s my take. I know it doesn’t make you happy. I’m sorry.
Pamela with all due respect you are talking about “what if” versus the reality on the ground. I would argue the vast majority of us hasn’t had any negative repercussions except mental from the last 4 months but we have certainly seen our local and state government in their regressive ways that have impacted us in a negative ways. What about being taxed into needing government assistance is of less concern than made up delusions. Think you could get 4500 people to show up and give equal criticism? Please forgive me for having such a big grievance with local and state governance and less so federal not that they aren’t worth criticism.
“… these things are of little concern to no kings protesters.”
How can you possibly know this? Many posts here show the exact opposite. Do you really think I can’t oppose trump and oppose raised local taxes at the same time?
“with the majority of our local people giving no quarter to dissenters.”
Source for “majority”?
I would like to thank everyone for the peaceful rally and protest on Saturday. We, in Edmonds, are better than all the violent people who have disrupted the peace loving protesters in other cities.
Exactly. This is really, or shouldn’t be a partisan issue. I was a Republican for years and I held several in high regard. I think that the current administration has gone way beyond what used to be respectful behavior for people of any party. The president is not behaving in any way that would make me believe that he cares about anybody but himself and revenge on anyone who would oppose him. This is, in my view, intolerable in a democratic republic.
No Kings! From the party who failed to hold a primary lol…..right. From the party of Bob Ferguson who will tax us out of existence.
What does the Democratic Party holding no primary have to do with someone getting himself elected President and then trying to throw out the Constitution with rule by Executive Order, while negating legal legislation and allocation of funds or inventing a government agency and then naming a fellow rich oligarch wanna be stooge to run it? The point is that this is how an all powerful King would act; not an elected Republican President. The Democratic Party certainly paid for it’s stupidity and failure to read the electorate accurately, but that has nothing to do with this guy trying to usurp both legislative and judicial powers and destroying the three co-equal branches of government in the process. People voted for Trump to lower the price of gas and eggs and stop the war in Ukraine on day one of his Presidency. Instead all they got is arbitrary and self defeating Tariff warfare and rule by decree of a would be King. The only thing saving us is that he is also stupid and has his own people walking on eggshells of confusion about what they should do or say next. The Emperor has no clothes and is really nothing but the Wizard of Oz; making it up as he goes along.
I put up with 8 years of “King” Obama.
And then 4 years of Biden.
A worthy cause! Kings come in many forms, like our State representatives that have forced new zoning / development on our communities, limiting our choices (development is necessary but communities should be at the drivers seat).
Or a Sound Transit CEO selection process, vying for a job that pays up to $650k. Dow Constantine was ultimately selected by a board that included 3 members appointed by Dow.
Or how about, at least 2 voter approved initiatives overturned by our State government.
Or the State fighting against public transparency by leveraging laws that limit public records requests.
Sound like actions of Kings, to me.
https://myedmondsnews.com/2023/02/edmonds-mayor-city-council-ask-legislators-to-abandon-housing-bills/
https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/wa-media-seek-overdue-fix-to-public-records-rules/
https://www.theurbanist.org/2025/02/26/constantine-pushes-back-on-conflict-allegations-surrounding-sound-transit-ceo-bid/
https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/editorials/new-sound-transit-ceo-constantine-must-prove-board-made-right-choice/
Yep; the silence is stunning.
You have lots of kings on your mind, Nick. Seems they can’t all be kings if they have so many co-members of their group. It is a stretch to say the state is fighting transparency when it is in the process of working to find a way to be more transparent in a world of changing news organizations. What will be the result? I agree a choice other than Dow Constantine would have been better. It was not illegal. Ferguson’s style doesn’t appear to be dictatorial. State and local governments for sure need to work together for effective housing policy. Is it? My jury is still out on these issues. The only king I see is the wannabe in the White House.
I would argue the one in the white house is restrained as much if not more than our own king in this state, I will agree the jury is still out. On both kings. Power gets diluted the farther down the chain it goes, although for a citizen of this state my fee for not being a burden on society is getting really high. It just seems in this state is they want people to need government programs to supplement their well being thru rules, regulation and taxation.